Varmint loads-gas gun - Printable Version

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Varmint loads-gas gun - Diesel Pro - 12-06-2023

Cobalt Kinetics SPR Elite with 22" Proof 1:7.5

Looking to load up something to start.  I have some 6mm stuff from prior 243 project.  

87 Vmax
65 Vmax

70 Nosler ballistic tip

50 SBK
70 SBK
80 SBT


I have quite a few powders, but not the two "hot ticket" ones (LVR and 223)  

Varget
BLC-2
H322
H414
H4895
Benchmark

RL 10x, 15, 19

VIHT 133, 135, 140

IMR 4831, 4895 8208XBR

Ramshot TAC, Exterminator

[attachment=756]

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - StoneHendge - 12-06-2023

I had good results with 70 gr Nosler BTVs and Benchmark. If I recall, I had them going around 3050 out of an 18". I didn't continue with it since that's what I get with the same combo out of a 24" 6x45 and saved my stash of 70 NBTVs for that.

Benchmark, H322 and H4895 are going to hit the sweet spot for burn rate - Lever and CFE223 are going to burn too slow. Benchmark is replaceable these days if you find something you like while H322 and H4895 are rarely available.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - grayfox - 12-06-2023

What stoney says.
Also, for your 22" barrel you can expect maybe 140-160 fps faster than the Hornady data (gas gun, 18" barrel).
Also useable in your mix are 8208xbr and RE-15, and varget.
Get the hornady AR-data pdf for guidance.
I tried some 75 vmax's with Xbr in my 20" AR and found a good spot at 2740. Your MV will differ so work up your loads from low.
For the 80 gr you could start with the 75 gr data, just don't up to the top since you're 5 grs heavier.
Test the bullets in your chamber for OAL's, the older tangent style ogives you tend to need to load shorter than maybe y ou're used to, but they will work fine.
I have some 87 gr VLD's I'm playing with right now, using the 87 Vmax data to start.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - rickt300 - 12-07-2023

I'm running BLC2 with the 58 gr. Vmax. Great shooting load at 3200 fps.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - UncleBob - 12-07-2023

One of the best loads I've worked up for the ARC
87gr VMAX
VIHT N135 27.3gr
2933fps on my 20" 1:7.5
Work up to this one, the load is slightly compressed and you may get overpressure.
Hope this helps. Shoot happy.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - Diesel Pro - 12-07-2023

Thanks for the feedback guys. Lots of good info

Do I bother trying the 50gr SBK's or just skip past them and run 65+?

On H4895 is IMR 4895 close enough?

I have quite a bunch of VIHT powder in jugs so I may start there. For some reason I never really had much success, with it, but I seem to recall maybe I bought it because it was scarce and just didn't dabble much.

I was working with my 22-250 bolt gun years back and used RL15 and IMR4895 but never got a load that worked. I'm going to start over with a ladder on both guns. Lots of learning ahead changing out my PACT for a Lab Radar. Also going to try to find a spot in our woods at the cabin that I can make my 100yd range. That way I can stay out of the wind a bit vs out on the field.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - UncleBob - 12-07-2023

(12-07-2023, 02:30 PM)Diesel Pro Wrote: Thanks for the feedback guys.  Lots of good info

Do I bother trying the 50gr SBK's or just skip past them and run 65+?

On H4895 is IMR 4895 close enough?

I have quite a bunch of VIHT powder in jugs so I may start there.  For some reason I never really had much success, with it, but I seem to recall maybe I bought it because it was scarce and just didn't dabble much.

I was working with my 22-250 bolt gun years back and used RL15 and IMR4895 but never got a load that worked.  I'm going to start over with a ladder on both guns.  Lots of learning ahead changing out my PACT for a Lab Radar.  Also going to try to find a spot in our woods at the cabin that I can make my 100yd range.  That way I can stay out of the wind a bit vs out on the field.
Depending on your barrel, I did not have any luck grouping the 58 grainers out of mine. Best I did was about 2 MOA. Your mileage may vary.
My other go to load is 26.9gr of Accurate 2495. Runs at about 2800fps, and it's very consistent.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - grayfox - 12-08-2023

Imr 4895 is not the same as H4895, even though allegedly close in some guns, I wouldn't recommend the Imr.
I'd suggest starting with 2 bullets, like the 70 nos and 87 vmax. Run ladders on them over the chrony, see what your can of powder does with your bullet in your barrel.
I've had some combos that just wouldn't work together, so why bust your tail on one of those...

One more thought on powders, I don't try ones a lot unless I either have a bunch of them and can wait out the supply hiccups, or use ones that are relatively available. "Single cans" of my favorites... need to wait until they have more company on the shelf, if you know what I mean.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - CZ527 Guy - 12-08-2023

(12-06-2023, 03:29 PM)Diesel Pro Wrote: Cobalt Kinetics SPR Elite with 22" Proof 1:7.5

Looking to load up something to start.  I have some 6mm stuff from prior 243 project.  

87 Vmax
65 Vmax

70 Nosler ballistic tip

50 SBK
70 SBK
80 SBT


I have quite a few powders, but not the two "hot ticket" ones (LVR and 223)  

Varget
BLC-2
H322
H414
H4895
Benchmark

RL 10x, 15, 19

VIHT 133, 135, 140

IMR 4831, 4895 8208XBR

Ramshot TAC, Exterminator

What do you have the most of?
Any of the bullets you have would seem promising with Imr 8208, H4895 or VIHT 133 & 135 IMHO. If temperatures are stable Tac & exterminator deserve consideration.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - Diesel Pro - 12-10-2023

(12-07-2023, 04:07 AM)UncleBob Wrote: One of the best loads I've worked up for the ARC
87gr VMAX
VIHT N135 27.3gr
2933fps on my 20" 1:7.5
Work up to this one, the load is slightly compressed and you may get overpressure.
Hope this helps. Shoot happy.

Curious did you run a full ladder on this setup?  I have a mostly full jugs of N135 as well as 133 and 140.

I set up to run a ladder from 25.4 to 27.2 but the first couple would not cycle proper. Thinking I probably should change to .1 increments.  I also had issues with my Labradar not reading.  If memory serves POI was good, but the snow was coming in and the light was fading fast so I packed up.

Right now I'm limited in optics to a thermal and ammo so I am just sticking to 50yds and a small square on a paper plate, but with the Hornady Black 105's I have decent groups often with holes touching during my zeroing operations.  I have a couple of scopes that I hope try soon, but if I was to do a night shoot I'm pretty confident in 50-300yds with the Hornady Black.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - UncleBob - 12-12-2023

(12-10-2023, 03:07 PM)Diesel Pro Wrote:
(12-07-2023, 04:07 AM)UncleBob Wrote: One of the best loads I've worked up for the ARC
87gr VMAX
VIHT N135 27.3gr
2933fps on my 20" 1:7.5
Work up to this one, the load is slightly compressed and you may get overpressure.
Hope this helps. Shoot happy.

Curious did you run a full ladder on this setup?  I have a mostly full jugs of N135 as well as 133 and 140.

I set up to run a ladder from 25.4 to 27.2 but the first couple would not cycle proper.  Thinking I probably should change to .1 increments.  I also had issues with my Labradar not reading.  If memory serves POI was good, but the snow was coming in and the light was fading fast so I packed up.

Right now I'm limited in optics to a thermal and ammo so I am just sticking to 50yds and a small square on a paper plate, but with the Hornady Black 105's I have decent groups often with holes touching during my zeroing operations.  I have a couple of scopes that I hope try soon, but if I was to do a night shoot I'm pretty confident in 50-300yds with the Hornady Black.

I did run a ladder. I went in .2 increments. I run my potential loads on Quickload before I start. The 27.3 gave me the best groups. 27.5 I had an ejector mark on the case. I had already done some work to the barrel. I knock down and polish the big hump in the middle of the feedramps, and open up the gas port to .110" and go with an SA adjustable gas block. Couple of tricks we learned from building Grendels.  Hope this helps.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - CZ527 Guy - 12-12-2023

Are you referencing Hodgdon gas gun data?

https://static.hornady.media/site/hornady/files/load-data/6mm-arc-gas-58-105gr-data.pdf

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - Ray R - 12-13-2023

(12-06-2023, 03:29 PM)Diesel Pro Wrote: Cobalt Kinetics SPR Elite with 22" Proof 1:7.5

Looking to load up something to start.  I have some 6mm stuff from prior 243 project.  

87 Vmax
65 Vmax

70 Nosler ballistic tip

50 SBK
70 SBK
80 SBT


I have quite a few powders, but not the two "hot ticket" ones (LVR and 223)  

Varget
BLC-2
H322
H414
H4895
Benchmark

RL 10x, 15, 19

VIHT 133, 135, 140

IMR 4831, 4895 8208XBR

Ramshot TAC, Exterminator



I have had excellent results with Varget and RL-15 using the Hornady 105 gr BTHP projectile, using my Savage AXIS II with a 22" barrel. These are 26.8 grain Target loads used at 100 yards, yielding sub-0.5 MOA groups.

For hunting I would expect the "ELD" 6mm bullets to have better terminal ballistics.

I find it surprising that my accuracy peaked at ~ 2600 fps (calculated on Quick-Load), when the commercial ammo is advertised at ~2700 fps (out of a 24" barrel). Usually, it seems more speed from hotter loads improves a rifles accuracy.


RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - grayfox - 12-14-2023

Ray, what you're running into is that accuracy comes at "nodes" of MV based upon your rifle barrel, and other cartridge variables. Sometimes a given bullet only meets nodes at certain MV, and might not be able to make it up to the next one. I'm not sure that a mfr loads only to such a node, seems to me they load to a max MV they can get, for marketing purposes. We as a demographic seem to go for max speed, so higher numbers probably generate more sales.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - Diesel Pro - 12-20-2023

(12-07-2023, 04:07 AM)UncleBob Wrote: One of the best loads I've worked up for the ARC
87gr VMAX
VIHT N135 27.3gr
2933fps on my 20" 1:7.5
Work up to this one, the load is slightly compressed and you may get overpressure.
Hope this helps. Shoot happy.

Have you had luck with the 75 Vmax with N135 and if so which seems to perform better the 87 or 75?

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - UncleBob - 12-21-2023

I had to check my notes, couldn't get good consistency out of 75s with my setup. Got really good velocities, but they didn't want to group

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - Diesel Pro - 01-01-2024

(12-21-2023, 12:10 AM)UncleBob Wrote: I had to check my notes, couldn't get good consistency out of 75s with my setup. Got really good velocities, but they didn't want to group


I brought in a box of 75's to try if I find time.  If nothing else I can use them as fowlers.  So far your N135 load and 87 seems to follow same or similar POI as the 105 black ammo so tat is nice to know.  The Hornady max load for Lever pushes the 87's higher by a good bit and actually has enough push to cycle my CK.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - UncleBob - 01-03-2024

(01-01-2024, 02:42 PM)Diesel Pro Wrote:
(12-21-2023, 12:10 AM)UncleBob Wrote: I had to check my notes, couldn't get good consistency out of 75s with my setup. Got really good velocities, but they didn't want to group


I brought in a box of 75's to try if I find time.  If nothing else I can use them as fowlers.  So far your N135 load and 87 seems to follow same or similar POI as the 105 black ammo so tat is nice to know.  The Hornady max load for Lever pushes the 87's higher by a good bit and actually has enough push to cycle my CK.
Good to know, thank you. Some of the Hornady gas gun loads I tried gave me overpressure signs. That was with my other barrel. I'll have to work up loads for my current barrel.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - Diesel Pro - 01-08-2024

(12-07-2023, 04:07 AM)UncleBob Wrote: One of the best loads I've worked up for the ARC
87gr VMAX
VIHT N135 27.3gr
2933fps on my 20" 1:7.5
Work up to this one, the load is slightly compressed and you may get overpressure.
Hope this helps. Shoot happy.

From my 22" proof using Garmin Xero C1 pro:

temps approx 30f

3046 avg of 5 shots 

FWIW Hornady max 31.6 LVR flew at 3038 avg

This was just recreational shooting (wasting ammo) working to get my LPVO dialed in.  REALLY would have been nice if my Longshot target camera had shipped promptly to save me the hiking.

I've got Quickload coming and plan to work through a few powders.  I'm kind of guessing that maybe backing off max is probably where I'll find the sweet spot.

RE: Varmint loads-gas gun - UncleBob - 01-09-2024

(01-08-2024, 02:50 PM)Diesel Pro Wrote:
(12-07-2023, 04:07 AM)UncleBob Wrote: One of the best loads I've worked up for the ARC
87gr VMAX
VIHT N135 27.3gr
2933fps on my 20" 1:7.5
Work up to this one, the load is slightly compressed and you may get overpressure.
Hope this helps. Shoot happy.

Those are some nice numbers. Looking forward to see where the sweet spot is for your setup.