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+--- Thread: Load thoughts... (/showthread.php?tid=1290)
Load thoughts... - dfosland - 04-22-2024
So the other week, I had mentioned that I had loaded up all my brass with 107 SMK HPBT with 26.8gr of Varget, CCI 400s, out of a 26" 1:7, bolt action rig. I just needed a load that worked, since I didn't have enough time to do a proper load/ladder work up before going sage rat/ground squirrel hunting in Eastern Oregon. Used all my loads, no pressure issues, but precision wasn't there obviously.
In searching through other threads, Lever Revolution is very popular here, so that is first suggestions, but I don't have any. Also, when people were disassembling the Hornady Black, it was compressed and found to be 32gr of spherical powder, assumption being CFE223. In running the loads through GRT, my guess is that they are using Superperformance, and the 32gr powder is right at the top of the pressure curve.
So, what I'm thinking is to get some Hornady 105gr HPBT and work up a load with the SuperPerformance and see if I can match what the Black ammo did for me, 2760 FPS and less than an inch at 100.
Yes, I know this powder is a lot slower burning than Lever and CFE223, but I also have a lot longer barrel than most.
Any other thoughts?
RE: Load thoughts... - KMW1954 - 04-22-2024
(04-22-2024, 06:03 PM)dfosland Wrote: So the other week, I had mentioned that I had loaded up all my brass with 107 SMK HPBT with 26.8gr of Varget, CCI 400s, out of a 26" 1:7, bolt action rig. I just needed a load that worked, since I didn't have enough time to do a proper load/ladder work up before going sage rat/ground squirrel hunting in Eastern Oregon. Used all my loads, no pressure issues, but precision wasn't there obviously.
In searching through other threads, Lever Revolution is very popular here,
Any other thoughts?
I find this very interesting indeed. I shoot with a group that are shooting 6mm BR, BRA, Dashers and one other 6mm ARC. These are all long barrel custom bolt rifles and they all keep telling me the same thing which repeats the load you describe. With the exception that they are all using Berger bullets.
Yet as you describe and repeat what others keep voicing is that the LeveRevolution is the way to go. Though I have not tried either as of yet I am leaning with the ARC crowd and passing on the Varget.
RE: Load thoughts... - dfosland - 04-22-2024
Oh, don't get me wrong, the Varget did well, I just didn't get to develop a proper load for it, so wasn't as good a test group as I would have liked. I have not tried the LeveRevolution, so only going on what people like, but it does seem to be a popular choice.
When I get off my rear end and get some more bullets, I'll let you know how it goes, because this is making me curious.
RE: Load thoughts... - grayfox - 04-22-2024
1. Miwall (use ammoseek) and Powder valley both have Lever available. Shipping/hazmats (if any) are more reasonable than in earlier years.
2. I do not have any experience using Super, except in a couple other calibers, and in those it was nothing to write home about, did not have the consistency I expect and got in other powders. In my Grt Spf is only a "development load" so that doesn't yield any useful info - it shows pretty SLOW.
3. The powders used by mfrs are more often than not, proprietary ones not available to the public. Sure, in the early days of the 6.5 creedmoor Hdy was publishing its loads for the 120, 140 on the boxes to generate some marketing traffic. But no longer. The powder in the current Hdy rounds are not public. Even in the case of "superformance" it has become known that they tune each "Spf" to the caliber and bullet they are selling, so each one differs. So again, it is very doubtful you have it on your shelf.
4. I do have a successful 107 SMK load in my bolt arc (22"), yields 2718 fps, and 100% burn. I tried extending length to 26" to see what it shows (Grt), and the same load shows 2818 fps, my independent calc method shows it would be on a node (so does Grt). Of course that is with my lot# of Lvr, 29.7. Others will of course differ somewhat but it's definitely in the ballpark for a 26" shooter.
5. The 2024 Hodgdon data does not show Spf as a powder for the 107 smk. So bottom line, it would not be my choice for a powder at all.
Their 2024 data do list Staball match, 760/414, and Acc 2560, CFE... a lot of choices. And note that their data is for 52.0 ksi Saami max (ie, gas gun), so with some development and Grt to help you could get a bit more MV and stay under the 60 ksi limit of a bolt gun.
6, If you decide to switch to the 105 Hdy bthp, bear in mind its shorter COAL as it is stubbier, typically ~2.200 cartridge OALs... whereas for my SMK I could use 2.250 = more powder room potentially. The 105 does shoot well in my guns as a btw. But so did the 107.
Then there is the berger 105 Vld... also good.
Lots of options without using a potentially non-performing and waste-of-time powder in the Arc.
My 2 cents. Stay safe and best wishes in your shooting.
RE: Load thoughts... - dfosland - 04-22-2024
Oh, I was going to start a whole 4 grains under max with the SPF, and with standard primers, I might be stupid, but I'm not that crazy.
RE: Load thoughts... - GRH - 04-23-2024
According to GRT using calibrated data from my 20" barrel, Varget is very well suited to a 26" barrel. Much more so than my 20" gas gun.
For consistent accuracy I found double base powder frustrating at best, that and the sheer volume of hard carbon fouling turned me away.
For me, a 26" bolt gun I would stick with Varget, (1) because the numbers are all there. (2) I know it would provide satisfactory performance. (3) local availability. Around here it's pretty much Hodgedon if they have it, or order online.
Staball Match also looks promising, again much more so for a bolt gun. but still satisfactory enough for a gas gun. My plan is to try a couple pounds this season to see if it has any edge over Varget.
RE: Load thoughts... - dfosland - 04-23-2024
Interesting, I think for me, it is curiosity about trying the other powders, as Varget has always been a stable choice (pun intended), as sometimes I can't leave well enough alone.
First problem I have right now, I need bullets; second problem, I just dropped 600 on 250 BMG bullets; third problem, revenue stream from salary doesn't fully support my shooting addiction.
RE: Load thoughts... - grayfox - 04-23-2024
Common problems! If/when you get around to working up loads again, maybe some of us can offer some advice on loads/powder charges... These barrels have resonance nodes, so unless it is a perfect barrel it will have several MVs that won't have any accuracy; then again when you get on/close to a node everything works again...
But you probably already know this...
Anyway, most of us are dealing with the 1st law of economics, there is always more demand than supply - of something you want! And more work than there is time to do it in!
RE: Load thoughts... - trianglevelvet - 05-14-2024
Superformance is too slow.
You'll run out of case capacity before you'll get top velocities.
A good choice in this cartridge for 105,107,109,110 gr bullets in a long barrel would be StaBall 6.5.
It's a little too slow for AR length barrels but if you've got "26 inches it might just be a good fit.
Also has the bonus of being Temp stable(ish).
RE: Load thoughts... - 300BLK - 05-14-2024
My cousin tried Lever under 103 ELDX in his 22" Howa and didn't see the accuracy he was looking for.
Has anyone run WW 748 through GRT? Data that I looked at suggested higher velocity with 748 than Staball Match, but not as much as AA 2520.
RE: Load thoughts... - GRH - 05-14-2024
[attachment=837]Has anyone run WW 748 through GRT? Data that I looked at suggested higher velocity with 748 than Staball Match, but not as much as AA 2520.
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So I finally got my hands on some N140 and made a preliminary model for my 20" gas gun. This is just a blank slate that I filled with my numbers, as of now un-tested and not confirmed.
1) I simply replaced the N140 for W748 and this is what it produced.
2) W748 is not well represented in GRT powder, meaning there are not a lot of submissions to "fine tune" the powder character.
Caveat lector
RE: Load thoughts... - 300BLK - 05-14-2024
(05-14-2024, 05:28 PM)GRH Wrote: Has anyone run WW 748 through GRT? Data that I looked at suggested higher velocity with 748 than Staball Match, but not as much as AA 2520.Hodgdon shows 27.4gr charge under the 107gr SBT and 2.26 OAL @ 2623fps and 51,500 PSI, so a gas gun load. Boltguns will take a longer OAL and more powder.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So I finally got my hands on some N140 and made a preliminary model for my 20" gas gun. It is just a blank slate that I filled with my numbers and as of now un-tested to confirm.
1) I simply replaced the N140 for W748 and this is what it produced.
2) W748 is not well represented in GRT powder, meaning there are not a lot of submissions to "fine tune" the powder character.
Caveat lector