(06-25-2024, 12:45 AM)grayfox Wrote: Something spec-wise wrong with that ammo series, is my guess.  It could be that its oal is causing the rounds to jam into the chamber.  Also possible (not as much IMO) is the chamber specs of the axis.
First thing to do is to call Hornady, have some pics ready and the 2 lots of ammo, gold primers and silver, lot #s etc.  The silver ones seem to be going over-pressure in the axis.  So something up with that combo.  Don't shoot them any more in the axis.

There were cases (lol) of older hornady ammo where they were loaded too long from the factory, but those were 105's, the more-tangent, a-bit-blunter, hpbt not the eldm's of the 108.  That was when it all first came out but Hornady since changed their loading of those 105's to a 2.200 OAL, so they wouldn't jam any more.  I give this just for history sake b/c yours seem to be all 108's, right?  But anyway I'd call hornady.

Second thing you could check is check distance to lands of the 108's, just the bullets, with an OAL comparator and digital caliper.  Hornady has one- the comparator.  for this you will need some gear to do, but that gear is worth having.

(06-25-2024, 04:22 AM)PeteS Wrote:

(06-25-2024, 12:45 AM)grayfox Wrote: Something spec-wise wrong with that ammo series, is my guess.  It could be that its oal is causing the rounds to jam into the chamber.  Also possible (not as much IMO) is the chamber specs of the axis.
First thing to do is to call Hornady, have some pics ready and the 2 lots of ammo, gold primers and silver, lot #s etc.  The silver ones seem to be going over-pressure in the axis.  So something up with that combo.  Don't shoot them any more in the axis.

There were cases (lol) of older hornady ammo where they were loaded too long from the factory, but those were 105's, the more-tangent, a-bit-blunter, hpbt not the eldm's of the 108.  That was when it all first came out but Hornady since changed their loading of those 105's to a 2.200 OAL, so they wouldn't jam any more.  I give this just for history sake b/c yours seem to be all 108's, right?  But anyway I'd call hornady.

Second thing you could check is check distance to lands of the 108's, just the bullets, with an OAL comparator and digital caliper.  Hornady has one- the comparator.  for this you will need some gear to do, but that gear is worth having.

What's funny is it's actually only the 108gr Silver primers, which were purchased a couple weeks ago and were the newest lot they just sent out and my local Rural King just got. It has happened with older lots too, but always with the 108's and the silver primers never with any lot of Gold primers, New or Old. Thanks for the info, will definetly look further into it.

(06-25-2024, 08:39 PM)PeteS Wrote:

(06-25-2024, 04:22 AM)PeteS Wrote:

(06-25-2024, 12:45 AM)grayfox Wrote: Something spec-wise wrong with that ammo series, is my guess.  It could be that its oal is causing the rounds to jam into the chamber.  Also possible (not as much IMO) is the chamber specs of the axis.
First thing to do is to call Hornady, have some pics ready and the 2 lots of ammo, gold primers and silver, lot #s etc.  The silver ones seem to be going over-pressure in the axis.  So something up with that combo.  Don't shoot them any more in the axis.

There were cases (lol) of older hornady ammo where they were loaded too long from the factory, but those were 105's, the more-tangent, a-bit-blunter, hpbt not the eldm's of the 108.  That was when it all first came out but Hornady since changed their loading of those 105's to a 2.200 OAL, so they wouldn't jam any more.  I give this just for history sake b/c yours seem to be all 108's, right?  But anyway I'd call hornady.

Second thing you could check is check distance to lands of the 108's, just the bullets, with an OAL comparator and digital caliper.  Hornady has one- the comparator.  for this you will need some gear to do, but that gear is worth having.

What's funny is it's actually only the 108gr Silver primers, which were purchased a couple weeks ago and were the newest lot they just sent out and my local Rural King just got. It has happened with older lots too, but always with the 108's and the silver primers never with any lot of Gold primers, New or Old. Thanks for the info, will definetly look further into it.

So this is what Hornady sent me from their service department. I'm not sure if they are right. My gun isn't dirty?

(06-25-2024, 08:39 PM)PeteS Wrote:

(06-25-2024, 04:22 AM)PeteS Wrote:

(06-25-2024, 12:45 AM)grayfox Wrote: Something spec-wise wrong with that ammo series, is my guess.  It could be that its oal is causing the rounds to jam into the chamber.  Also possible (not as much IMO) is the chamber specs of the axis.
First thing to do is to call Hornady, have some pics ready and the 2 lots of ammo, gold primers and silver, lot #s etc.  The silver ones seem to be going over-pressure in the axis.  So something up with that combo.  Don't shoot them any more in the axis.

There were cases (lol) of older hornady ammo where they were loaded too long from the factory, but those were 105's, the more-tangent, a-bit-blunter, hpbt not the eldm's of the 108.  That was when it all first came out but Hornady since changed their loading of those 105's to a 2.200 OAL, so they wouldn't jam any more.  I give this just for history sake b/c yours seem to be all 108's, right?  But anyway I'd call hornady.

Second thing you could check is check distance to lands of the 108's, just the bullets, with an OAL comparator and digital caliper.  Hornady has one- the comparator.  for this you will need some gear to do, but that gear is worth having.

What's funny is it's actually only the 108gr Silver primers, which were purchased a couple weeks ago and were the newest lot they just sent out and my local Rural King just got. It has happened with older lots too, but always with the 108's and the silver primers never with any lot of Gold primers, New or Old. Thanks for the info, will definetly look further into it.

So this is what Hornady sent me from their service department. I'm not sure if they are right. My gun isn't dirty?

---

(06-25-2024, 08:39 PM)PeteS Wrote:

(06-25-2024, 04:22 AM)PeteS Wrote:

(06-25-2024, 12:45 AM)grayfox Wrote: Something spec-wise wrong with that ammo series, is my guess.  It could be that its oal is causing the rounds to jam into the chamber.  Also possible (not as much IMO) is the chamber specs of the axis.
First thing to do is to call Hornady, have some pics ready and the 2 lots of ammo, gold primers and silver, lot #s etc.  The silver ones seem to be going over-pressure in the axis.  So something up with that combo.  Don't shoot them any more in the axis.

There were cases (lol) of older hornady ammo where they were loaded too long from the factory, but those were 105's, the more-tangent, a-bit-blunter, hpbt not the eldm's of the 108.  That was when it all first came out but Hornady since changed their loading of those 105's to a 2.200 OAL, so they wouldn't jam any more.  I give this just for history sake b/c yours seem to be all 108's, right?  But anyway I'd call hornady.

Second thing you could check is check distance to lands of the 108's, just the bullets, with an OAL comparator and digital caliper.  Hornady has one- the comparator.  for this you will need some gear to do, but that gear is worth having.

What's funny is it's actually only the 108gr Silver primers, which were purchased a couple weeks ago and were the newest lot they just sent out and my local Rural King just got. It has happened with older lots too, but always with the 108's and the silver primers never with any lot of Gold primers, New or Old. Thanks for the info, will definetly look further into it.

So this is what Hornady sent me from their service department. I'm not sure if they are right. My gun isn't dirty?

If there was a carbon ring effecting the rounds "Headspace" then they would effect the Gold primer rounds the same as the Silver primers right? TheSilver primers being thinner might be true but then why use them at all if they can be punctured easier. I know they only use what they can get if supply is low but still that sucks cause I don't reload and now I have to hope they use the right primer I need to shoot in my gun whenever they get it out kn the shelves. Oh Well.

(06-25-2024, 11:40 PM)Old Bob Wrote: One other thing. I just went on an online tour of Hornadys Match ammo. Nowhere did I see the 108gr 6mm Arc Match ammo is made specifically for 6mm Arc bolt action rifles. Here's what I found: "Equally at home in AR-15 platforms and short or micro action bolt guns, this load is suitable for applications from personal defense to match shooting, hunting, and military and law enforcement." But, now that we know better now, 6mm Arc Match ammo with silver primers are bolt fodder ...

(06-26-2024, 02:28 AM)grayfox Wrote: Do us a favor and post on here the lot numbers of the ones that shoot ok, and the ones that get popped primers.  Lot #s are on the silver label on one end of the box.  Not the "product#" but the lot#'s.  If that lot is out of spec, someone else could check their factory ammo and avoid shooting that lot# for now, if desired.

This might be a little jumbled,
I'm trying to keep it logical but I write, then re-read, and then think of another point... hopefully this will make some sense.
On the one hand, cleaning the chamber and barrel wouldn't hurt anything.
I have right now, on hand, eldx's (103) factory ammo with both silver and gold primers in box.  And 108's with both silver and gold primer in box.  Boxes of each color, I mean.  The eldx is primarily a hunting round, why would a hunting round be "loaded" primarily for a bolt gun/"match ammo" for a competition?  So his logic doesn't add up to me.
I don't buy the point of silver primer ammo being for bolt guns; nowhere in Hornady's literature or history do they say anything like that, and I doubt their lawyers would ever let them do it.  Boxing 2 separate specs of ammo, differing only (only?) in primer chosen, where one is for "bolt" guns and one is for gas guns, yet NEVER SAYING THAT TO THE BUYER,  is a multi-milliion $$$ lawsuit for negligence/liability waiting to happen.
They must know and load their ammo for use in both frames with no distinction made, ie, for 52 ksi -- and gas guns were first, even when the 108's were first offered to the public.  #2, if anything the gas gun would be easier on the ammo pressure-wise since anything loaded for it must stay under 52 ksi, so in a bolt gun it would never approach a limit. #3, the problem is occurring in a bolt gun (108's but only in the silver, the golds are ok), and after a bolt gun is fired (correct me if i'm wrong) the firing pin stays in contact, fully extended in the fire position, until the bolt handle cocks it again during the eject sequence.  Popped primers is a sign of over pressure.  Primer "flow" can be due to the bolt face's firing pin hole, and a harder primer would resist that, but I would seriously doubt if Savage's bolt face would cause all of this.

He might have something if they indeed use a softer primer "silver" one as opposed to gold, but again that could be a legal liability since they do not say anywhere "use only in gas guns, or only in bolt guns".  CCI SRP's #400 are softer and thinner in cup metal than either cci #41 (gold color) or the Win primers (gold last time I looked at them), or the cci 450's (silver but harder and thicker).  CCI, at least imo, seem to be just a "tad" smaller in diameter, we're talking maybe 0.001 or so still in spec, but they load easier in some of my tight primer pockets, where Federals are tougher to get in there.  They obviously (2-colors) do have differing primer batches on hand at various mfring times, but how would their engineers ever let a primer that can not handle the firing sequence, out into the market...  I could see using cci 450's or #41's, but again,  you're not having issues in a gas gun firing sequence where either slam fire or soft-pierced primers have more often occurred.

So.  not a bad idea to do the clean chamber/barrel thing, just to keep it off of their list.  But I doubt that that is the problem here.  Next time you call, see if you can get someone from their engineering staff, not just their customer service "techs".

And keep documentation/screen shots of all this info this guy gave you.

---

One more thing.  
Safety first.
Safety first.
Safety first.
I have nothing to sell, and am not bad-mouthing any vendor.
Shooting is an inherently dangerous sport, so safety is paramount, and a little over-caution is much better than a little less.
This is why I say the things I did, above.  If something is suspect, you can always set it aside first and verify ok, shoot later if it really checks out fine.  You can't put a busted eyeball back into the socket, however. (A bit graphic but you get the point.)
I approach potential problems as guilty until proven innocent, not the other way around.