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+--- Thread: Lever Test Load Results (/showthread.php?tid=552)
Lever Test Load Results - r.tenorio671 - 02-03-2022
...some chrony results from todays testing w/LeverEvolution & miscellaneous bullets. The intent of the tests was to check for pressure signs. Brass is converted virgin Starline 6.5G converted that was annealed before sizing & trim, CCI 400 small rifle primers. Chrony used is a Chrony Beta Master. Approx 85F/80%H, cloudy w/scattered showers, altitude 600ft. Due this being the 1st firing of virgin brass I expected wildly high SD/ES numbers, which did occur.
Barrel: 18" Ballisitic Advantage, RLGS w/SLR AGB, std carbine buffer system, VG6 6.5 GAMMA Brake
Berger 95 Classic Hunter, CBTO 1.686", COAL 2.174"
28.4 = 2595 fps avg
28.7 = 2623 fps avg
29.1 = ERR
Berger 95 VLD, CBTO 1.660", COAL 2.257"
28.4 = 2600 fps avg
28.7 = 2632 fps avg
29.1 = 2669F fps avg
Berger 105 VLD, CBTO 1.659", COAL 2.255"
28.4 = 2603 fps avg
28.7 = 2594 fps avg (had 1 round 50fps slower than rest, possible chrony issue)
29.1 = 2677 fps avg
Hornady 87 VMAX, CBTO 1.661", COAL 2.130"
30.0 = 2817 fps avg
30.4 = 2881 fps avg
30.9 2965 fps avg
Hornady 90 ELDX, CBTO 1.655", COAL 2.167"
29.8 = 2790 fps avg
30.1 = 2789 fps avg
30.4 = 2867 fps avg
Hornady 108 ELDM, CBTO 1.684", COAL 2.250"
28.5 = 2594 fps avg
28.8 = 2583 fps avg
29.1 = 2611 fps avg
Nosler 105 RDF, CBTO 1.679", COAL 2.245"
28.4 = 2596 fps avg
28.7 = 2614 fps avg
29.1 = 2672 fps avg
The biggest take-away for me was that I more than likely can go up in charges for more speed as none of the brasss had any visible or obvious pressure signs, no ejector marks, shines or digs, brass was ejecting on a 3:30-4:00 pattern approx 2 steps away in a nice little pile. I started my loads in the approximate "middle" charge of data available between Hornady & Hodgdon. The recommendations I received from Berger for their bullets was VERY conservative, I exceed them. Next round will be the highest charge weights from this test in this now 1x fired brass. My goal is for all bullets to have a fps that stays supersonic to 1100-1200.
YMMV, work your way up safely!
RE: Lever Test Load Results - Dino11 - 02-03-2022
Your max loads between the 95 grain pills and the 105's shows how much more efficient the 105's are. Your velocities match or exceed the velocity with the heavies to the lighter ones. This is why I like the 105's the most.
I also like the 109 long range hybrid bullets as well. Those suckers will shoot out to a mile. These are the ones I used this past summer to shoot the mile.
RE: Lever Test Load Results - Thelaststraw - 02-03-2022
95 VLDs can get pretty damn fast. I never pushed the 105 VLD hard, I don't think the H4895 I had at the time was ideal for that. They were happy in the 2680 area if I remember right. The 95s love to run fast....I have had good results with them and N140 at 2900 ish depending on where I am shooting. 24" CLE +2 gas
RE: Lever Test Load Results - r.tenorio671 - 02-04-2022
...some quick pix taken during a "rain break". A Berger 95VLD group, my ejection pattern and my rig. Winds were strong, up to 20 knots so target was moving alot despite the height of the berms, coming from about my 7-8 o'clock. I wasn't attempting groups, but needed a consitent aiming point to keep bullet path over the optical sensors of the chrony centered.
...dang it, giving me issues attaching images again!
.....LOL, it dropped off one of the attachments again...
RE: Lever Test Load Results - r.tenorio671 - 02-06-2022
...some afterthoughts after the ammo tests from above.
Recoil: Initial test firing w/o a muzzle device had sufficient "jump" that scope reticle would come off POA significantly, recoil was very light. After putting the brake on, jump reduced significantly, reticle movement on POA negligible, much more stable with bipod load.
LeverEvolution: It is a "dirty" powder, probably the most of all powders I've used. My "lesson learned" was to ensure I run my SLR AGB's adjustment screw thru it's full travel in & out before leaving the range (my normal procedure with my other calibers/powders). It was difficult to run it all the way in when I cleaned the rifle a couple days after range session. Outward was no issue. A bit of CLR on the adjustment screws detent furrows allowed it to run its full range of adjustment. I followed that up with liberal rubbing alcohol to neutralize the CLR then liberal CLP to lube and coat the screw and internal threads. The CLR, alcohol & lube were all applied with a "needle oiler".
Brass: AS stated before, virgin Starline 6.5G converted. As time permits, intend to measure base, shoulder bump and primer pockets of the max charges to gather data, I'll post findings later. Visually, the cases look the same, aside from the soot the Lever deposited. The cases I'm most curious about are the ones where I had the AGB closed completely. They should closely mimic what a bolt action would have imparted. Those cases had some resistance when manually ejected via the charging handle. I'm theorizing those cases are the closest to an exact conformance to my chamber.
Bullets: Overall, did not discern much difference in recoil between the 70 thru 108 grain bullets as far as felt recoil or effect on "thru the glass 'jump'".
Primers: As most of my supply is CCI 400's, post firing shape is very slightly flattened at the max loads I tested, as expected, but none of the obvious "over pressure signs". The same happens with my other calibers that use SRP's . I have a few 41's and 450's I may test with, but past experience hasn't shown a significant difference to me at least .
During bullet seating, I had 3 separate incidents of the case shoulder collapsing. Can't say if it was because of insufficient chamfering of the brass (or lack of), extremely dry cases or what. Not wanting to waste my limited components, I just rubbed a very slight swab of Imperial wax between my thumb and finger and spun the bullet base between them before seating, no more collapsed cases. Any concern I may have had about it affecting bullet grip were unfounded. The rounds sat for over a week before firing & I surmised that the Imperial would have been scraped off by the seating operation or degenerated by the long wait before firing. Before firing I tested some random rounds by pressing them in against the bench, no movement or effect observed.
RE: Lever Test Load Results - Lemonaid - 02-06-2022
Nice group! If the accuracy holds up I would pretty much call load development done. Someone posted that they fixed collapsed shoulder brass by running them through a 30-06 sizing die first (I think they were 6.5 grendel) and then again through the regular die. Give it try and let us know if it works for the ARC as well. As for Imperial sizing wax, it's pretty hard to remove. In fact I'm running some .223 brass for a second time through the wet tumble process as the first time left some sticky residue. Good news is that it's likely a good thing to have in the inside neck to prevent neck weld if stored for a long time. Appreciate the write up, thanks!
RE: Lever Test Load Results - r.tenorio671 - 02-07-2022
...forgot to include my results of the 105 RDF's that I loaded w/748. These loads should be taken with a healthy dose of skepticism. These were my 1st attempt at loading my converted brass using the dregs of 748 left in the cannister. I had to pull all of the rounds once I determined my digital scale was acting up due to a dying battery. I dumped all the powder and re-weighed all charges after inserting a new battery. Despite having emptied powder, I observed some granules were still in most of the cases, not sure if it was due static electricity or what. but dropped the charge weights down quite a bit to use up the components for first rounds down the tube when testing build function. The listed charge weights could vary for + - .01 to .02 due the "stuck" granules and probably why the large variations in FPS, but it gives an idea of potential performance. It should be noted brass looked great afterwards, pretty normal truth be told. Same CBOT & COAL numbers as listed or the Lever tests.
25.5 = 2325, 2330, ERR, ERR, ERR = 2328 fps avg
26.0 = 2416, 2505, 2572, 2598, 2412 = 2506 fps avg
26.5 = 2651, 2711, 2560, 2788, 2738 = 2689.6 fps avg
27.0 = 2515, 2514, 2506, 2835, 2530 = 2580 fps avg
That 27.0 load was the anomaly, but I have seen it in the past with other calibers that a higher charge weight would sometimes start trending downward. If I had to resort to W748 in the future, I would work with that 26.5 charge as it gets me close to my 2700 fps objective.
YMMV, so work up your load safely.
RE: Lever Test Load Results - r.tenorio671 - 02-13-2022
...some follow-up data of post-firing measurements taken of the brass. Measurements were taken of the loads listed above, but I'm only posting those from the max loads as the differences between the min & max loads were negligible (4th & 5th place decimal).
...Original Hornady die setting gave measurement's of Shoulder= 1.188 ; Base= 0.438 and cases trimmed to 1.480 ( the middle of the SAAMI max of 1.490, min of 1.470).
Bullet / Shoulder / Base / Powder
Nosler 70gn VG : 1.1932 , 0.441, 8208XBR
Nosler 105 RDF : 1.1938 , 0.441, W748
Berger 95 Classic Hunter : 1.194166667 , 0.4407 , LVR
Berger 95 VLD Hunting : 1.1940 , 0.441, LVR
Berger 105 VLD Target : 1.195166667, 0.441, LVR
HDY 108 ELDM : 1.195, 0.441, LVR
HDY 90 ELDX : 1.1935, 0.4415, LVR
HDY 87 VMAX : 1.194166667, 0.4415, LVR
Nosler 105 RDF : 1.194, 0.4415, LVR
My takeaway's are: I can now fine-tune my sizing die for more efficient shoulder bump. Negligible to zero brass flow affecting trim length. No measurable differences between the pre-annealed and non-annealed virgin brass I converted for their 1st firing. No differences in the cases that were fired with adjustable gas block closed completely to those when adjustable gas block opened for full functionality.
YMMV
RE: Lever Test Load Results - Lemonaid - 02-15-2022
I'll post this here but the management can move it to the bolt action section if wanted.
Range Report with CFE 223, 108 eld-m and 65 vmax.
This might help as my target pics are a bit of a mess.
65 V-Max, CFE 223, cci 450, F.F., 2.123, Horn/Con
29.7 5=.720
31.0 5=.812
31.3 5=.475
31.6 5=.531
32.0 5=.715
108 ELD-M, IMR 4895 26.5, cci 450, 2.275, 2.275, Horn/Con
26.5 6=1.165
108 ELD-M, CFE 223, cci 450, F.F., 2.275, Horn/Con
28.2 5=1.555
28.5 5=1.265 (4=.540)
28.8 5=.540
29.2 5=.955
29.4 5=.490
RE: Lever Test Load Results - r.tenorio671 - 02-15-2022
(02-15-2022, 07:17 AM)Lemonaid Wrote: I'll post this here but the management can move it to the bolt action section if wanted.
Range Report with CFE 223, 108 eld-m and 65 vmax.
This might help as my target pics are a bit of a mess.
65 V-Max, CFE 223, cci 450, F.F., 2.123, Horn/Con
29.7 5=.720
31.0 5=.812
31.3 5=.475
31.6 5=.531
32.0 5=.715
108 ELD-M, IMR 4895 26.5, cci 450, 2.275, 2.275, Horn/Con
26.5 6=1.165
108 ELD-M, CFE 223, cci 450, F.F., 2.275, Horn/Con
28.2 5=1.555
28.5 5=1.265 (4=.540)
28.8 5=.540
29.2 5=.955
29.4 5=.490
...some fine groups with those loads! Did you by any chance chrony those loads?
RE: Lever Test Load Results - Lemonaid - 02-16-2022
Sorry, chronograph data is the next step. I'll verify the most accurate loads and get the velocity data then.
RE: Lever Test Load Results - Lemonaid - 02-20-2022
Here is the velocity data.
Hornaday 108 eld, Cfe 223, cci 450, Hornady converted brass, 2.275 oal.
27.6 2488, 2513
28.8 2610,2612
29.4 2588,2669
Hornady 65 v-max, Cfe 223, cci 450, Hornady converted brass, 2.123 oal.
31.3 3050,3028
31.5 3039,3042