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+--- Thread: Hunting vs Target opinion needed (/showthread.php?tid=938)
Hunting vs Target opinion needed - Bassfish1952 - 05-27-2023
I hunt and normally range shoot just to zero. But have started shooting more at the range as I get older. In Hunting I use a 2x7 or a 3x9 scope as they give me the largest field of view for acquiring my target against wooded background but recognize that my exact point of aim is more by instinct than seeing a 1" spot on the deer.
My question is
with these scopes should I expect different grouping ability or should I be able to maintain the same group size with all at 100 yds
I'll be honest with my 2x7 FOV on low 43.8' I am able to see better but group size is bigger than using a friends 4x12 at the range.
I see guys on YouTube getting very small group size but see also that they are using a scope that would not be viable in Alabama shooting on stand at 30 yds or so
I don't want to excuse bad aim but at the same time want to be realistic with expected grouping
second thought I was thinking of picking up a 4x12 scope and mounting with the quick release scope mounts, once it is sighted in does it return to zero after removing or is that just sells pitch ?
Thanks
RE: Hunting vs Target opinion needed - Old Bob - 05-27-2023
Bassfish ... With any variable scope your aiming point is going to be less precise at its lowest magnification than at its highest. So, yeah, your groups might be a bit larger at 2X than 7X. As for changing to a 4x12 scope, what is your typical hunting range? If it's 200yds or less your 2x7 should be quite adequate. Myself, I've had mostly 3x9 scopes on hunting rifles except for my 270 Win that I use exclusively for Antelope. It has a 3x18 'cause I might have to shoot out to 400yds or more.
I have no experience with quick release scope mounts. Can't say how well they return to zero when removed & reinstalled.
RE: Hunting vs Target opinion needed - Bassfish1952 - 05-27-2023
(05-27-2023, 05:39 PM)Old Bob Wrote: Bassfish ... With any variable scope your aiming point is going to be less precise at its lowest magnification than at its highest. So, yeah, your groups might be a bit larger at 2X than 7X. As for changing to a 4x12 scope, what is your typical hunting range? If it's 200yds or less your 2x7 should be quite adequate. Myself, I've had mostly 3x9 scopes on hunting rifles except for my 270 Win that I use exclusively for Antelope. It has a 3x18 'cause I might have to shoot out to 400yds or more.I'm good with the 2x7 for hunting. I guess I didn't speak ,right my concern is using a hunting scope target shooting , what group size would you expect using a 2x7 vs a 4x12 at say 100-200 yds. ?
I have no experience with quick release scope mounts. Can't say how well they return to zero when removed & reinstalled.
I normally sight in at 50 yds with my 2x7 and 3x9, I can account for a 200yd zero and sight in at 50 and have no problems with my hunting but at 100 yds I can no longer see well enough to get the tight groups but since a target is not moving and doesn't have to be picked out from the background I was thinking about a 4x12 or higher for target and testing my new reloads because on max I can see the 1" square or circle that I am using to compare groups making human error less.
I had thought about a 4x12 or 3x16-18 on a quick release for target and the ability to switch back to the hunting scope easily for deer season
RE: Hunting vs Target opinion needed - Old Bob - 05-28-2023
OK! I get ya now. Yeah, a higher magnification scope is what you need for target shooting. 4-12, 3-18 are good choices for sure but depending on how far you're shooting, you might wanna go as high as 5-25. You'll also have to take into consideration scope features like reticles, parallax adjustment, tube & objective lens diameters, MOA or Mil-Rad adjustment & first or second focal plane. There are so many scopes out there with all kinds of features that it will make your head spin. I usually stick with brands that have been good for me. Leupold, Vortex, Trijicon & Primary Arms scopes rate high with me. I try to get them as they go on sale.
I have used hunting scopes when target shooting but upgraded to better scopes when I had the bucks to do so. Actually, for most of my shooting life, I never used a scope. It's only in my later years I found I needed the help. I used to shoot iron-sighted muzzleloader & black powder cartridge competitions along with service rifle matches from the 70s up to the early 90s. Except for Antelope, I hunted almost exclusively with muzzleloaders during that time period. I started shooting 3 gun matches around 94/95.
RE: Hunting vs Target opinion needed - grayfox - 05-28-2023
My experience with quick release, which admittedly is limited, is that they can "quick release" or get loose at the wrong times. People who say they return to zero - well possible I guess but more skeptical of that than believing...
What you should think about is a ffp, good quality scope with the magnif range like 4-16, 3-18, something like that. For those close in shots you can dial down or dial up for the farther ones or targets.
I've got several vortexes and they do this for me. But it's more a function of your eyes personally and how they're working in dim light, bright light, near and far. I have a need to identify buck/doe and even sometimes how many points or antler spread they have, so use scopes with higher mag's that I did when younger. Eyes are good now but the larger image definitely helps; I'm steadying the rifle with some kind of front support, tripod, shooting house window, etc., so all the fuss about mag making the image shaky is a non-issue.
I just swapped my diamond back tactical (4-16 ffp) onto a new 243 and it's doing really well, 100 gr hdy's into 0.5-0.6 inch/100 yds. My normal preferred scope will have at least an x16 on the top end. But with ffp, dial it anywhere and the ranging remains the same. My Arcs all have an ffp on them.
I would add that a scope with an illuminated reticle helps in the low-light times, like getting towards dusk, when I dial back down to ~9x or 10x for 50-100 yds and throw on the reticle illum. These usually have a larger obj lens too for better light gathering ability, also a plus.
A 16x for me will easily take me out to 600 yds target shooting. 1000 was more like 25% but 600 was dead on, for steel.
RE: Hunting vs Target opinion needed - UncleBob - 07-02-2023
Bottom line is what do you need the rifle to do, and what are you comfortable with. Old Bob and grayfox are pretty much spot on. I have never had good luck with QD scope mounts. Every one I have tried and seen, including some high end ones, get you close, but never exactly on. I'm running a 30mm tube 4-16 on my ARC right now, that seems to be a good balance between field of vision and precision shot magnification. I run 4-20x, a 3-15x, and 6-24x on my other rifles. Don't recommend the 6-24 for hunting. For my scopes, I like a 3x or 4x on the low side, with the max as high as I can afford. Of course, my hunting conditions in Arizona are far different from yours in Alabama. Hope this helps.
RE: Hunting vs Target opinion needed - pavementends - 07-02-2023
One thing I learned long ago was to fit your target size to the scope. i.e. We shoot 1" dots all the way to 600 with a good 10x or above scope. With a 2.5x or 3x at 100 yrds a 4' or 6" dot would be more appropriate. As long as you can see the target clearly, the center of the dot is the same no matter how large the dot is. One other thing I have done when using a target that was too small for the power scope I was using is to place the cross hairs where the horizontal touches the bottom of the dot and the verticle touches one side of the dot. This allows you to have a very consistent sight picture. Long winded way to say small groups can be shot with a low power scope.
Kind regard
RE: Hunting vs Target opinion needed - Bassfish1952 - 07-04-2023
Well I ended up buying a spotting scope and using the hunting scopes I have now. For zeroing I have a Caldwell lead sled now that seems to help with holding my sight picture .
But once the rifle is zeroed I'm more inclined to shoot at the range same as in the field. Offhand or with a small rest for the forearm as I would have in most of the Blinds I have been in.
Thanks for the advice
RE: Hunting vs Target opinion needed - pavementends - 07-04-2023
Wise choice!