[attachment=687 Wrote:[attachment=688][attachment=688][attachment=687]Bassfish1952 pid='5751' dateline='1685299733']I started at Hornady load for 90gr GMX at 2700 fps all are with LR powder, 24" barrel , CZ527 rifle

2700 -   28.4gr powder
2800 -   29.5gr
2850 -   30.0gr
2900 -   30.6gr
2950 -   31.1gr
3000 -    31.7

out of Hornady reloading app.
 What I got
2700-  was 2885,2899, 2878
2800- was  3117,2963, 3017
2850- was 3045,3014 and one round wouldn't chamber ( may have missed it when I sized the last time) checking
2900-  was 3033, 3141 
2950- was 3123
and 
3000- was 3150

The 3050 load filled the brass case so I did not try to compress.

The Factory cases ran 2728,2758, 2742

Rounds below are starting with 2700 to far right in green case working to left with highest at left case wall and the 3000 load at the top of picture.
Factory loads are black case

Take aways from my first reloading experience 
1. I am going to check my electronic scale against my manual scale not sure of it.
2. My Magnetospeed loosened after several shots and I didn't catch it soon enough so could have been the strange spreads I got on some.

Below are pictures of the primers

[attachment=692 Wrote:CZ527 Guy pid='5753' dateline='1685307311']Like Johnys Reloading bench might respond....Well, you did not blow your face off. That has to be a good thing. Data does look quite scary to me.

What I mean by that is I am inclined to think your velocity readings were correct or reasonably close. If this is true the data seems to indicate your pressure was on the high side quite early. While I am happy you are coming away safe, I am hoping you are at least a bit nervous about the data.

I had been of the opinion that LVR may be one of the safer propellants you could have worked with, for this loading. As I feel you may be hard pressed to get too much in the case that you may not get yourself in any real trouble. Your data is leaving me second guessing that to a degree to be honest.

My take away is the Pacnor barrel is a fast barrel. I expect your pressure did get on the high side. Photos provided leave a bit to be desired, though I think the far right  primers lare looking a bit flat, though I am not noticing any primer flow around the firing pin. suggesting elevated pressure.

Hornady's top load data is often over the top. I expect you will generally need to scale back a grain or more to stay inside of safe pressure limits.

What primer are your reloads primed with?

You will want to evaluate primer pocket growth. Keep those upper end cases separate. Curious what you will see if you were to keep those top loads separate. Deprime the case & seat a new primer. Note, the feel of seating the primers in these cases verses when you initially primed the brass.

Then deprime the lower velocity cases & seat new primers again. are you noticing a difference in seating pressure?

[attachment=694 Wrote:grayfox pid='5755' dateline='1685314080']Check the mgspd frequently until you  have a good idea of how it's holding.  I had to do that at first, but still check every 4-5 loads or so. 
My opinion, if those loads show your load spread you are loading too fast, too far apart as to load values.  For a new bullet (to you), and new process you should start at the 28.4 then increase by 0.3 gr, some guys use 5 per load step, I do a ladder first then 4 per step once I know what my barrel will do.
So either
a. 1 at 28.4, 1-28.7, 1-29.0, 1-29.3, 1-29.6.  Mayve add a 29.9.
or
b. 4 ea at, again, 28.4, 28.7, 29.0, 29.3, 29.6.

Watching it all the time (during the shooting) b/c if you start to see 100+ fps more than Hornady, something is way off.

Magneto all of them, then take the data back to graph it out.
Take that data back to the bench and evaluate.    You have a 24" barrel, so did they for this load data.  Could be your throat is shorter than theirs was (did you check the oal to make sure you were off the lands?  I would load all-copper like that, conservatively, 50-60 thou off the lands since it is tougher to engrave in the barrel than cup/core.).

Some early barrels had short throats, hornady "fixed" it by shortening their 105 bthp ammo but IMO those throats were still short.  Short throat means higher pressure and unrealistically higher MV.  Just one thought on what you're seeing.

If it is your scales then you should be able to find that out easily...
Anyway keep us posted.

(05-29-2023, 11:34 PM)popgun Wrote: Judging by your chrono numbers I would load some up around 28.4gr and probably wouldn't go over 29gr (28.4, 28.7 and 29.0). You had a great ES and just below 2900fps. How much speed do you want? If it groups decent start playing with the seating depth. I'm not sure and maybe someone can answer it, but the Starline brass might have less case capacity than the Hornady brass you got the load data from. Your brass will thank you for the lighter charges too.

(05-30-2023, 02:06 AM)grayfox Wrote: There are reasons why I was saying use a 0.3 gr spread between loads, but it's your loading game so your choice.  For anyone except a precision shooter, loading at << 1% capacity (ie, 0.1 in this case) will yield more noise than results, as the load spread is too tight to be of statistical relevance - ie, with an SD of 10, your 0.1 gr is within 1 SD of the previous load so what did you learn from it?  In a perfect world the load vs MV for a well-behaved rifle system should show a straight-line, linear increase in MV as load increases, thus it is unnecessary to use 0.1 increments, and also unnecessary to "duplicate" hornady load spreads.  The 1% delta (0.3 in this case) allows for enough MV difference to be more than just standard deviations, ie, "noise", and allow you to see what is actually happening with your powder/bullet load combo's performance.  So unless there is some compression or some other non-powder issue, your real-world results can be put into a graph and the linear "best fit" is probably the load curve for your powder/bullet/rifle combo. 
Going at 0.1 will spend lots of bullets for little useful info.
Your 24" barrel probably has a node somewhere close to 3000 but it might be 2960, maybe 3045, bet you a dunkin donut it's not exactly 3000.  Possible but you have to let the barrel tell you where its node is, you can't specify/force fit it by yourself.  Such is the nature of reloading: to find the natural loads that a barrel likes, with small groups and small SD, not the load you tell it to do.

(05-30-2023, 04:13 AM)CZ527 Guy Wrote:

(05-30-2023, 02:06 AM)grayfox Wrote: There are reasons why I was saying use a 0.3 gr spread between loads, but it's your loading game so your choice.  For anyone except a precision shooter, loading at << 1% capacity (ie, 0.1 in this case) will yield more noise than results, as the load spread is too tight to be of statistical relevance - ie, with an SD of 10, your 0.1 gr is within 1 SD of the previous load so what did you learn from it?  In a perfect world the load vs MV for a well-behaved rifle system should show a straight-line, linear increase in MV as load increases, thus it is unnecessary to use 0.1 increments, and also unnecessary to "duplicate" hornady load spreads.  The 1% delta (0.3 in this case) allows for enough MV difference to be more than just standard deviations, ie, "noise", and allow you to see what is actually happening with your powder/bullet load combo's performance.  So unless there is some compression or some other non-powder issue, your real-world results can be put into a graph and the linear "best fit" is probably the load curve for your powder/bullet/rifle combo. 
Going at 0.1 will spend lots of bullets for little useful info.
Your 24" barrel probably has a node somewhere close to 3000 but it might be 2960, maybe 3045, bet you a dunkin donut it's not exactly 3000.  Possible but you have to let the barrel tell you where its node is, you can't specify/force fit it by yourself.  Such is the nature of reloading: to find the natural loads that a barrel likes, with small groups and small SD, not the load you tell it to do.

Well said!  I'll add that if Hornady is listing 3050 as a max velocity with a particular bullet & powder charge; Pay respect to the max velocity, despite powder charge may be short of listed max. If you are working with that exact bullet, when you reach max velocity listed, It is most likely prudent to accept enough is enough.

If you have additional loads at higher charge weight, Pulling the bullet may be your best option for the loads with the ,higher weight charges.

Number of good bullet pulling options to choose from. Give Hornady cam over  collet system a look. Choose your vendor, though here is an example.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00005050095/cam-lock-bullet-puller

You will require a caliber specific collet as well if you choose this route.

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item/00005392156/cam-lock-bullet-puller-collet-number-3-(243-caliber-and-6mm)

Inertia pullers are a less expensive option & more universal with no need for the collets. Still I prefer the collet system.