12-30-2020, 11:09 PM (This post was last modified: 12-31-2020, 02:15 PM by Old Bob.)
Has anyone loaded any light weight varmint bullets for your 6mm ARC? I've been thinking about doing that with Nosler 55gr Varmageddon bullets. There's no 6mm ARC loading data for that specific bullet that I could find but Hornady has data for their 58gr V-Max. I figure I'll start there but my powder stash is short on powders suitable for light 6mm bullets. AA2230 & VIHT N-130 are the only powders I have from Hornady's data. I want to use varmint bullets in the 6mm ARC 'cause I know where an over-populated prairie pup town is & I want a little more reach than my .223 Rem Savage 110.
One more thing to ponder... at a spin rate of 1:7.5", I'm wondering if the 55gr Varmageddon bullet will hold together? I've had Sierra 52gr .223 bullets disintegrate in my 1:8" twist Savage.
The cataract surgery on my right eye went well. Now, I just need the left one done. That'll be on 01/11.
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
Haven't thought to go down to 55, i would think a 55 in 6mm has a worse BC than 55 in 5.56...
how low would I go? I guess I would look at the 75 vmax, I've done that one a few times in .243, it' a screamer.
... guess I'm assuming you have that bullet, these days you might need to shoot the ones you have in hand.
With Lever and looking at the 75 Hornady data, I'd bet I might get up close to ~3200 in my 20". Close to ~3100 with AA2230 if I had any.
(12-30-2020, 11:17 PM)grayfox Wrote: Haven't thought to go down to 55, i would think a 55 in 6mm has a worse BC than 55 in 5.56...
how low would I go? I guess I would look at the 75 vmax, I've done that one a few times in .243, it' a screamer.
... guess I'm assuming you have that bullet, these days you might need to shoot the ones you have in hand.
With Lever and looking at the 75 Hornady data, I'd bet I might get up close to ~3200 in my 20". Close to ~3100 with AA2230 if I had any.
Shoot the ones I've got... you betcha! You're right, the .224" Varamageddon 55gr tipped bullet has a BC of 0.255 while the tipped 55gr 6mm has a BC of 0.252. The bigger difference is in SD. .224" = 0.157; 6mm = 0.133. I got the 55gr bullets 'cause it's was only one of two 6mm bullets they had at Cabellas. The other was 100gr Hornady Interlock BTSPs. I got them too. It's slim pickin's for bullets around here. Primers/Powder? Forget it!
My barrel will be 20" as well. 3200/3300 fps should be in reach with the AA2230 & the 55gr bullet. I've got some 88gr Berger varmint bullets coming from Brownells. Should get around 2800 fps with Lever & that bullet.
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
Don't but any more 55s until I have a chance/time to put up some pictures. The 55 gr Nosler Shots have a long jump and below ideal seating depth in a 243 LBC case for me - and your going to be even worse with a 0.03" shorter case to the shoulder.
I got the 70 gr NBTVs going 3060 with XBR in my 18" LBC. Didn't do further testing since I get 3000 out of my 24" 6x45 with them and they are real tough to find these days. But at that speed I can attest that they anihalate filthy plague infested P-Dogs. Not much more range than 55s out of a comparable .223, but better in the wind. The thump is also about half an octave lower.
01-01-2021, 02:44 AM (This post was last modified: 01-01-2021, 02:48 AM by Old Bob.)
(12-31-2020, 08:51 PM)StoneHendge Wrote: Don't but any more 55s until I have a chance/time to put up some pictures. The 55 gr Nosler Shots have a long jump and below ideal seating depth in a 243 LBC case for me - and your going to be even worse with a 0.03" shorter case to the shoulder.
I got the 70 gr NBTVs going 3060 with XBR in my 18" LBC. Didn't do further testing since I get 3000 out of my 24" 6x45 with them and they are real tough to find these days. But at that speed I can attest that they anihalate filthy plague infested P-Dogs. Not much more range than 55s out of a comparable .223, but better in the wind. The thump is also about half an octave lower.
The first thought I had when I opened the box of the 55gr bullets was bullet jump. They are short! I would have bought any other 6mm bullets at Cabellas if they had them in stock. When there are only two boxes on the shelf, you get what you can. I haven't loaded any yet & after second thoughts, I might not.
I will take grayfox's suggestion & look at ammoseek for 70gr to 90gr 6mm slugs. I used ammoseek to find 100 rounds of 108gr ELD-M 6mm ARC ammo last month.
I got some good news from PF regarding my 6mm ARC barrel. They're working on it now & should ship it in a couple of weeks.
(12-31-2020, 10:11 PM)grayfox Wrote: Go to ammoseek. Midway has the 70 gr Noslers, boxes of 250, plus other places having 58 gr- 90 grainers. Get 'em while they are hot.
Will do that. Maybe I can find some BL-C(2) powder while I'm at it... (Yeah, right )
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
01-01-2021, 03:14 PM (This post was last modified: 01-01-2021, 03:37 PM by StoneHendge.)
95 gr TMK on the left, 55 gr Nosler Shots on the right in a necked down 6.5G case for fireforming. I don't know how far off the lands I am with the TMK, but when I worked up my load at a 2.26" COAL, there was no reason to play around with seating depth. With the Hornady Bullet Comparator, the TMK is 1.680" cartridge base to datum point and the 55 gr is 1.656"
The seating depth to get that long is the fun part::
Correct me if I'm wrong, but cartridge base to lands is going to be the same in 6 ARC and 243 LBC/6 Grendel, so 6 ARC is going to have 0.03" less neck to work with at my COAL.
I don't have any loaded 70 gr NBTVs, but this is one of them next to the 55:
The NBTV has the spitzer boat tail while a Varmageddon is flat based. They are completely interchangeable from a load and zero standpoint, but the NBTVs are a tad more accurate to start and hold that accuracy better past 250 yards or so.
This is a 70 gr NBTV in a fired case. Its 1.71" base to comparator datum line to adjust my 1.68" for the TMK to ARC's lower shoulder and give a visualization of how much neck would be used in ARC. It doesn't quite give full neck usage, but it's close - and I'm guessing some of that boat tail ends up being more bearing surface on a flat based Varmageddon
Note that my neck is quite short. The brass is actually 6x39 and I trimmed it after sizing from 7.62x39 (which I shouldn't have). When I fireformed, the neck shrunk. That case is 1.485 and will size to 1.490, so a "normal" case will have 0.02" more neck on the tip side. It actually works fine for my purposes for this brass, which doesn't involve sub MOA accuracy.
Thanks for the photos Stonehendge. Your 55gr Nosler bullet looks different than the 55gr Varmageddon bullets I have (see photo). The Varmageddon bullet looks a lot sleeker.
I went to ammoseek to find a bullet that strikes my fancy. I didn't see any 70gr Noslers or any other bullets in that weight range suitable for varmints. So... I ordered some Sierra 80gr Varminters from MidwayUSA. I would have liked to get something a bit lighter but... Oh well! I still might load up 10 of the 55gr slugs just to see how they shoot.
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
Yours may be sleeker, but mine were only 8¢ per. Shipped. With no sales tax! It actually looks like they might have less bearing surface - the metal for the nose has got to come from somewhere. Use them for fireforming - that's what I got mine mostly for. I put them to use practicing things like shooting offhand, etc.
01-02-2021, 05:06 PM (This post was last modified: 01-05-2021, 05:34 AM by Old Bob.)
StoneHendge.... 8¢, cool! Mine figured out to 21¢ per. Don't know about shipping, mine were off the shelf. What material are the tips on yours? Mine are plastic.
What are you fireforming, 6.5 Grendel or 7.62x39? All my brass is resized 6.5 Grendel (Lapua & Alexander Arms - 100 each). Do I need to fireform them? I have a few 7.62x39 cases that I ran through my sizer but some wouldn't fit in my case gauge after sizing. They are range pick-ups... no telling what they were fired in. Not gonna use 'em anyway. I have some Winchester brand 7.62x39 ammo for my SKS but I'm not able to get to the range right now. I just had cataract surgery on my right eye & will have the left eye done on the 11th. The Doc doing the surgery says I shouldn't do any shooting for a month after the procedure. Most likely wouldn't use 'em even if I could shoot 'em. I have another 100 AA 6.5 Grendel cases on order. Have you tried reforming 220 Russian brass?
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
Bob, mine are just lead soft tips. They probably have the BC of a pregnant sow, but they are serving their purpose. I use them for fireforming both 6.5 G and 7.62x39 brass. It's not obvious with most factory brass, but it is something that *should* be done with virgin brass since it comes from the factory at minimum spec while a die won't take it back down that far during resizing. So the virgin and fried/resized cases will have different volumes and while load development with virgin brass will get someone in the ballpark, results won't normally be repeatable at the same charge level. My 6.5 Creedmoor had a 50 fps difference between virgin Starline and fired, holding all other variables the same (the fired is/was faster). Necking brass down helped me visualize the difference and I've fireformed all virgin brass since. Do you have a slight bulge at the shoulder body junction on what you've sized down? It's hard to see with my nickel brass above, but since brass flows down during necking down, the die pushes brass below the shoulder and it goes outward to the sides of the die that work on the case body wall. So the distance between that ring and your case body is the minimum extra amount that the body will expand on its first firing vs subsequent firings.
I looked at my Grendel brass sized to 6mm ARC. With my nekkid eyeball I can't see a bump or bulge. But, with a 10X loupe, there is a barely perceptible bump at the body/shoulder junction. It can be felt more than it can be seen.
It's too late to fireform most of my brass now. I've loaded 5 different ladders already (150 rounds). I have 50 cases I've not loaded yet. What powder do you use to fireforming with your 55 grainers?
The only other time I repurposed any brass was when I changed some 30-06 to 8mm Mauser for a 98K that had a pristine barrel. At the gunshop where I bought it, they only had berdan primed, corrosive Turkish military issue ammo. I didn't want to shoot that nasty stuff in that pretty barrel so I bought a die set & 8mm bullets. I already had the '06 brass & suitable powders. I would have never thought about brass flow when downsizing cases if you didn't bring it to my attention. Even at my advanced age, I can still learn something new. Thanks...
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
"I thought I knew everything I needed to know yesterday, but that was before today." Is only something us elders are wise enough to realize ?. I certainly never distinguished the difference between virgin and fired brass until I saw it myself too.
I used some pulled Benchmark to do the first 100. Loaded it at minimum + 1 grain to be kind to my barrel. Talk about being resourceful! It was being stored in a mason jar along with a tag I pulled off of my mattress with the hopes that 2 wrongs make a right. It shot pretty well out to 150 but started acting like Chinese fireworks past that. I'll probably use CFE 223 based off of Hodgdon 6mm PPC data for the rest- just trying to use up my jug after swearing it off. If not that, I'll probably use H322
I, don't have any pulled powder but I do have some Reloader 7 & IMR 4198. Either one should work well with light bullets. In addition to the brass I haven't loaded yet, I have another 100 AA Grendel cases on order. I'll have to get more of the 55 grainers though. I hate using up my CCI #41 & No. 450 primers for fireforming. I need to look in my stash to see what else I can use. I think I have some CCI 400s.
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
FWIW as a reference point, I magnetto'd a few of my 55 gr fireforming loads. Used 32.5 gr of CFE 223 in a 243 LBC case using 6mm PPC data as a reference. Only shot 3 at paper as foulers. 2 touched and a other an inch away which was quite surprising with the jump and seating depth. Velocity out of my 18 at 3160. One of the 3 didn't register. Merely presenting as a data point for the CFE fans.
I used 25grs of Reloader 7 for my fireforming loads with the Nosler 55gr bullets. In the Hornady 6mm ARC load data I have for 58gr bullets, they use Accurate LT-30 & LT-32 powders at 24.9grs & 26.1grs respectively. Reloader 7 is between those two powders on the burn rate charts I have so I figure it'll do what I need it to do.
I exchanged emails with a fellow at Lapua about resizing 220 Russian brass to 6mm ARC. He thought it was a good idea. I asked them about it 'cause it's the only brass I've seen in stock with .441" rim & head diameters. The AA Grendel brass I ordered from Alexander Arms is still a no show from last November. I did see some 7.62X39 brass in stock at a couple of places but I'd rather not use it for the 6mm ARC or 6.5 Grendel. I did resize a few once-fired 7.62X39 cases to both 6mm ARC & 6.5 Grendel out of curiosity. That bump at the case body/shoulder junction is very well pronounced in both versions. From what I've seen written about using fire-formed 7.62X39 cases for the Grendel, they fall short accuracy wise.
With the 220 Russian the necks are being sized up instead of down. I suspect they would still have the "bump" but it might not be as pronounced 'cause their shoulder diameter is a bit larger than the 7.62X39 cases.
My 6mm ARC barrel is still a no-show. Last I heard from PF, it was two weeks out from shipping. That was three weeks ago.
Meanwhile, I've had cataract surgery on both eyes. Whoo-Hoo! What an amazing change it has been!
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
I've seen this "basic" brass before. I'm not sure what a "full body anneal" entails either plus I don't have the equipment to do such a thing anyway. I have annealed case necks by slowly spinning them mounted in a Lee case trimmer shell holder chucked in a variable speed drill. While the case is turning, I heat the necks with a propane torch until the neck & shoulder turn pink. It's slow, tedious work but has to be done sometimes.
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
