Wrinkled necks when formed from 6Gren ??

[Badgersmith]

I ran a few Hornady 6.5 grendel cases through the 6ARC dies and trimmed.Wrinkles or creases formed where the new neck was formed.I figured they'd smooth out when fired first time. On firing the creases improved some but most cases cracked or showed they were close to failing along the creases.Hoping someone can tell us where we made a mistake. Just received a new annealer and will now anneal all cases before re-sizing but... don't want to wreck anymore valuable brass.Been reloading literally 50 years now but have limited experience with reforming cases. Have a shoot tomorrow and don't want to use the few factory rounds I have.  Thanks very much,Supervel

[grayfox]

You didn't say how many times the hornady's were fired, but from my experience either the lip of the case mouth hit the internal die stop or shoulder bumped up hard against the die shoulder, something to crunch down the neck like that.
(One more thing occurrs to me) - you should probably resize and trim the grendel down to in-spec first, before doing any sizing down to the 6Arc. Sometimes a grendel chamber can leave the case quite long after firing... I have had shoulders up to ~1.227 after firing from a loose chamber (I got rid of that barrel but it happens).
Couple of options I can think of, but first make sure you trimmed the oal down to at least 0.030 below the grendel (1.520 max for grendel case, 1.490 for the 6Arc case).
Then do the resizing. The neck-down will push some brass up into the OAL of the neck so go a bit under the 1.490 for the trim.
Annealing first is a definite help (I'm still learning that art), other thing might be to bump UP the resizing shoulder distance in your 6Arc die. IE, it's set now for the 1.186 or so shoulder height, whereas the grendel case is more like 1.215 give or take... so raise your 6Arc resizer up to ~1.200 for a first run, then back it down to the 1.186... do the effort in two bumps not 1.

Anyway, a few thoughts to think about...

[StoneHendge]

Without a picture it's hard to tell what could be going on, but you might be experiencing hydraulic sizing, which is when an excess of lube gets caught in the neck/shoulder area. It has nowhere to go as the case is pushed into the die so the brass gives. The solution is to wipe excess off of the neck and shoulder before sizing. Overlubing is certainly understandable when converting brass. It's something that's happened to me more with straight 6.5 brass than converting it, likely due to less shoulder area when it stays at 6.5.

[Dino11]

Did you remove the de capping pin- resizer ball from the die before resizing, and as stated you may have hit the lip inside the die. Check those things out and if it's not the problem try annealing it first before resizing.

What die are you using?

[Badgersmith]

Not sure but I don't think I removed decamping stem. Hornady dies. I just purchased an Annealer from Mikes Reloading. It will work with the 6mmARC/grendel brass . Most won't so folks check before purchasing. Had a bad ride with Anealeeze,bought machine w parts to run 6mmARC,arrived short of the parts. They have a "contact" window which I tried 41 times over 10 days with no replies.To see if they were alive I ordered a $25 part and got instant response. ?! Finally I used a reply to that address to unload on them for leaving us high and dry.Surprise,owner actually called us back. We had a long conversation.He has a lousy Web provider and had no idea he was NOT getting hundreds of queries from customers needing advice or to return machines.I honestly was surprised he wasn't very concerned about all those customers being ignored.He didn't express that he was sorry for all our time/money wasted. I asked why no phone number listed.He said that he didn't like getting a lot of spam calls and he didn't have time for calls anyway.He couldn't grasp that by hiring one person to take and filter calls he could sell many more machines and not have hundreds of furious ex customers telling their friends etc that they should avoid their products.34 yrs in business has proved to me that many great craftsman/inventors can't or won't grasp customer dynamics. My Old Man taught me this when I was about 12.He did agree to refund our money and covered the shipping. It's also very tough for inventors to let others "carry their baby". They kill themselves trying to control every aspect of the business, they don't trust anyone so can't delegate,make more money,have more time to improve or invent other great stuff. And.... like every good patriot he is beyond worry with the state of our crumbling Nation. That worry is paralyzing millions of Small Businesses. Here's hoping he makes a few changes and prospers.As far as our Nation ..until we work harder than the other side the Nation continues to edge closer to darkness.

[gorillamotors]

I have never liked Hornady brass for reloading. But that is me. How many times has that brass been fired period? Did you anneal your brass before the forming process? It sounds like was too hard and when you fired it it just cracked. I always anneal my brass before reforming a case even brand new brass that has been annealed from the factory.

[Badgersmith]

Did you remove the de capping pin- resizer ball from the die before resizing, and as stated you may have hit the lip inside the die. Check those things out and if it's not the problem try annealing it first before resizing.

What die are you using?

---

Didn't remove but I will. Using RCBS Dies .Buy Hornys today.
Purchased anealer , it's having trouble with the short grendel
And 6ARC cases feeding onto roller .Touching base w maker
Of machine too. Will also make sure minimal lube used and die is cleaned well.
THANKS a ton for the great help, I appreciate the time taken to help us out.

[r.tenorio671]

    .....due the lack of available 6ARC brass, I converted new Starline 6.5 Grendel brass to 6ARC.  The conversion was actually pretty simple and easy, for me at least.

My process:

1. New Starline brass from bag to annealer.
2. Lube (alcohol+lanolin mix) and size in my Hornady die (Hornady Custom die set).  I DID NOT remove the expander button.
3.  Trim to 1.490" on Forester Classic trimmer, chamfer case mouth in & out.

When I was setting up my sizing die, I used Imperial Die Wax as I was working with a single casing at the time, but after die was set up, I went whole hog as I use a progressive press (Lee Loadmaster).  I found that the pre-annealed brass had a more defined shoulder and virtually no springback as opposed to non-annealed brass, also the consistency of the shoulder bump was better with the pre-annealed brass and required less force on the press handle.  Neck tension was great, seating was no issue and bullets COULD NOT be pressed inward when tested on counter-top or during loading from mags using bolt release.

[Badgersmith]

Picked up a set of new Hornady Dies. Quite surprised that any cases I formed with the Hornady dies formed perfectly.
Every one formed  with less effort. New rule, try different dies when a problem arises. RCBS again was zero help with problem and stayed consistent treating this longtime [45yrs] reloader/customer like an amateur. One time,just one time I'd like their people to treat a customer like they matter.
  Again,grateful for the advice and time spent on our problem.  The MRB[Mikes Reloading Bench] stress relieving machine
aka annealer is working very well. The short 6mm ARC cases always require their "speedbump" be installed for positioning the case in flame correctly.

[Bill]

Not sure if its been asked but did you Anneal the cases first ? absolutely essential if you want quick and easy resizing.

[r.tenorio671]

...for anybody researching annealers, you might want to check this out before making a final decision...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiRRys2kEoY

and yes, this is what I use for all of my calibers; 223/556, 300BLK, 308/762, 6.5 Creedmoor & 6ARC and I receive no compensation from EP Integrations, LOL. I decided on this because I could switch calibers quickly and without additional costs for wheels, etc. The only expense I have after purchase is replacement gas cannisters ;-)

In my post above you can see the results of the annealing on my new Starline brass that I converted to 6ARC, I just went from the bag to the annealer before I started resizing them...YMMV

[Old Bob]

...for anybody researching annealers,  you might want to check this out before making a final decision...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiRRys2kEoY

and yes, this is what I use for all of my calibers; 223/556, 300BLK, 308/762, 6.5 Creedmoor & 6ARC and I receive no compensation from EP Integrations, LOL.  I decided on this because I could switch calibers quickly and without additional costs for wheels, etc. The only expense I have after purchase is replacement gas cannisters ;-)

In my post above you can see the results of the annealing on my new Starline brass that I converted to 6ARC, I just went from the bag to the annealer before I started resizing them...YMMV

Ordered one of those annealers. Should be here sometime this week...

[Dino11]

Their is something about having an open flame in my reloading zone that makes me feel uneasy... Which is why I have an induction annealing unit. Everybody to each their own but the induction unit does a perfect job on each case and they are very uniform, you can set the timer to the 1/10th of a second. Starline Grendel brass is taking about 6.8 seconds per case.

[StoneHendge]

With all of these basement/garage made annealers popping up in the market, I'm really surprised that one of the traditional reloading equipment suppliers hasn't jumped on the bandwagon yet.

[r.tenorio671]

With all of these basement/garage made annealers popping up in the market, I'm really surprised that one of the traditional reloading equipment suppliers hasn't jumped on the bandwagon yet.

...true, I'm surprised as well.  I thought if anything Benchsource would have been the 1st to jump on it by adapting their carousel model to have an induction unit bolted on, sort of like a couple of curved parallel strips the cases would pass between.  I recall watching a vid a long time ago about one manufacturers automated system that had this but in a straight line feed as the cases ran by on their conveyor system.  The strips were only about 6" long and by the time the case got from one end to the other they were annealed, probably based on the speed of the conveyor system...

[Bill]

I use a $8 propane torch from a hardware store and 14mm socket in a rechargable drill, takes 8sec just like that video, brass gets dropped into pot full of cold water to instantly quench. I throw another case into the socket straight away, almost as quick as any machine and cheap as.

[LaMan]

What's absolutely necessary is to trim the Grendel brass before re-sizing. I've done 100 Starline Grendel brass to 6ARC with Hornady dies without annealing and without wrinkling or any other issues. There is up to 5 firings on the majority of these and only one split neck with some pretty hot loads.

[Keycap]

Alright, nooby question. How do you use the quote function?

"There is up to 5 firings on the majority of these and only one split neck with some pretty hot loads."

What's a hot load for you, if you don't mind sharing.

[Dino11]

I have brass with 12 loading on it and have never split a case as of date, and some of this brass has had hot bolt gun loads, but I do anneal my brass just for consistency if nothing else. If you are loading your gas gun brass with a hot load you are still probably still below bolt gun loads. I never load gas gun above max recommended load. I like my guns to much to beat on them like that. I load for accuracy and consistency over velocity.

[grayfox]

Alright, nooby question. How do you use the quote function?

"There is up to 5 firings on the majority of these and only one split neck with some pretty hot loads."

What's a hot load for you, if you don't mind sharing.

To get the quote in your response, like this one, click on the "reply" button right below the comment  you want to quote.  You can edit it down if you want, just leave the little box it's inside, alone.
"Hot" to me is at or above max listed MV in the book, no matter if the gr's are below that max posting.  Pressure and MV are linked, the grains just get you to that point.  Hot can also be above where a chrony ladder tells you to stop.