Varget loads not cycling bolt, and bullets getting stuck

[Recarga]

Hello 

Definitely this little rifle is giving me the wrong impressions and not really sure what’s going on. 

Gun will cycle factory loads just fine 108 ELD match and 103 ELD X 
Groups really suck by the way. 

The gun is a new POF Renegade 18.5” upper with a rock rivers lower. 
Gas is all the way open like I said the factory loads runs fine. 
But my reloads using  varget hornady load data for Gas guns won’t cycle the bolt all the way back to load the next round and won’t lock up on last round. 
I’m using 3 loads charge for a total of 3 different weight bullets 85,95&100 grs using 50,75&95% charges. Now it is 20° And on Saturday two days ago it ran a set of 90gr loads fine. 

Another problem I’m having is the lack of information on OAL length so I’m having to go by measurements on my chamber and seating my bullets .020” off but doing this I’m running in issues where the bullets get stuck on the rifling and I go to pull it out it’ll pour all the powder out. 
I did read where I may need to do a slight crimp so I ordered a Lee Fac crimp. 

Little help please.

[grayfox]

"But my reloads using varget hornady load data for Gas guns won’t cycle the bolt all the way back to load the next round and won’t lock up on last round.
I’m using 3 loads charge for a total of 3 different weight bullets 85,95&100 grs using 50,75&95% charges. Now it is 20° And on Saturday two days ago it ran a set of 90gr loads fine.

Another problem I’m having is the lack of information on OAL length so I’m having to go by measurements on my chamber and seating my bullets .020” off but doing this I’m running in issues where the bullets get stuck on the rifling and I go to pull it out it’ll pour all the powder out. "


Need a little clarification here. Which bullets exactly, at what oal's, and what grs of powder. "50%, etc" doesn't convey me any usable info. And various bullets all have differing ogives so Oal's can vary considerably one bullet to the next.
Plus, what brass, is it new or x-fired, and what shoulder bump-back are you doing?

1. Two other tools I recommend is get the hornady OAL gauge comparator and a 6mm ARC modified case (I had to get the case from copper creek but there may be other available now), and the hornady headspace comparator kit.

The first one measures your chamber depth to the lands for each of your bullets (write them down). The second measures your case shoulder setback. I usually load from 0.020 off to 0.060 off, prefer the latter except when I can't afford that much and have carefully tested at this closer length. using a Lee fcd is not a bad idea, I have resorted to that too for my gas gun loads.

Some mfrs do not make chambers with good freebore, so bullets you would otherwise think are length-gaged ok may be too long for your chamber. Leads to stuck bullets.
Many of the older but popular pills have a tangent ogive, which tends to need a short OAL, shorter then you might think. 95 sst, 90 eldx, etc.
I have got my varget loads to work ok using the hornady load data for gas guns. I use Vgt sometimes but most times am using Lever, since I don't want to give up the MV. But for 90 Tgk, I got 2730 for pretty accurate load in 18" Monster barrel, in varget. I have an older 103 load for my 20" but it's right at max ksi with Vgt, I've switched all of that to Lever since then.
Couple shooters on here have been using Varget loads for some comps they are in, and it is an accurate powder for the caliber.

[Recarga]

Grayfox

I’ll post my loads when I get home didn’t know about the rules here and definitely didn’t want to break them.

I did order me the Hornady modified case since my method is a little Orthodox for a gas gun but for a bolt gun, it works wonders specially when I used to do bench rest.

[grayfox]

No problem, me or the other guys will help you out.
I normally don't post many complete loads b/c every gun/barrel is different.
I have 4 6Arc barrels and they are all different, so treat ech one individually.

[SpeyRod]

When I decided to get into the arc someone who has been very helpful to me said Varget could be problematic. I haven’t tried it yet so can’t comment. But I will say another arc shooter I know is getting accurate loads, but slow, with Varget.

If you are getting stuck bullets and you think you are 20 off the lands I would bet you have too little neck tension. When your round is chambered your bullet may be setting forward into the lands. Every gun is different but I have found that 2 thou neck tension works well in my guns. Many prefer 3-4 in their gas guns. Measure your neck tension during your next load session.

FWIW, annealing will help with consistent neck tension.

Good luck.

[Recarga]

Update below are my load data I appreciate very much your help

I DID CHECKED with the bullet comparator and I was way out
18.5” POF AR 15
Weather 20°
VARGET 3 loads each
OAL tested 2.170” actual chamber measurements 2.186”
90gr Hornady ELDX
1-27gr 2780fps
2-27.6. 2,800 fps
3-28.3. 2.830 fps

95gr Hornady SST one bullet got stuck
OAL tested 2.252 I was way out my fault but read later comments
1-27gr 2,720 fps
2-27.6gr. 2,750fps
3-28.2 not tested bullet got stuck

100gr Hornady interlock soft point

OAL tested 2.190” my chamber got tested at 2.169 I was way out also but read later comments
1-27gr 2,660 fps
2-27.6 2,710 fps
3-28.2 2,745 fps

85 gr sierra GM hollow point
OAL tested 2.074 actual measurements 2.037
1-27.8 2,742fps
2-28.6 no fps
3-29.6


Now I suspected something was not right when some bullets did not got stuck so I took two of my rounds and did not fire them but manually cycle them through the gun and extract them and this is what I found out I think I’m beginning to suspect the reason of my bad groups and flyers I think the bullets somehow are moving forward on recoil and cycling.

My initial ogive was 1.712”
After cycling them this is the measurements of two that i brought back home

1.763” this one pulled out .051”
and
1.719” this one pulled out .007”
I think is time for checking neck tension or order the easy fix all LEE factory crimp die.

[grayfox]

yes so you are getting some bullet movement. the 95 sst for my chambers, does a max OAL of 2.200-2.205, so this is one I seat to 2.180.
The hornady 100 sp is a little longer in the ogive than sierra 100, I have one chamber max at 2.180 but I haven't used it much in Arc.
90 Eldx I have OALs around 2.215-2.220, I seat those at 2.175-180.

Another factor for these tangent bullets is to ensure there is enough shank in the case neck for proper hold. Bottom rim of the shank-boattail interface at least meeting the bottom of the neck.
But yeah the Lee fcd will help you out on these.

Of all the ones youi list the only ones I use now in ARc from time to time are the 90 Eldx, I like the secant-90 sierra tgk much better. Can seat out to 2.260 as its OAL is 2.33x.
hdy 103, berger 95's and 87 and 105 vlds, sierra tgk's, I like the better powder room these allow. but that's just me.

in 18" barrel, 90 eldx, you may be able to get around 2675-ish at max Vgt loads, there is a node about 2650-ish, but that's about it.

I've tried the 87 berger vld and Lever, 18", getting ~2830, better BC also.
Or the 90 tgk, 18" and Lever, ~2800.

these 2 guys are made for the 18-20" barrels IMO.

As always, ymmv and work up from lower for your barrel.

[UncleBob]

Hello 

Definitely this little rifle is giving me the wrong impressions and not really sure what’s going on. 

Gun will cycle factory loads just fine 108 ELD match and 103 ELD X 
Groups really suck by the way. 

The gun is a new POF Renegade 18.5” upper with a rock rivers lower. 
Gas is all the way open like I said the factory loads runs fine. 
But my reloads using  varget hornady load data for Gas guns won’t cycle the bolt all the way back to load the next round and won’t lock up on last round. 
I’m using 3 loads charge for a total of 3 different weight bullets 85,95&100 grs using 50,75&95% charges. Now it is 20° And on Saturday two days ago it ran a set of 90gr loads fine. 

Another problem I’m having is the lack of information on OAL length so I’m having to go by measurements on my chamber and seating my bullets .020” off but doing this I’m running in issues where the bullets get stuck on the rifling and I go to pull it out it’ll pour all the powder out. 
I did read where I may need to do a slight crimp so I ordered a Lee Fac crimp. 

Little help please.

I had trouble with VARGET as well. Something about the pressure curve some rifles don't like. For your 80-80gr bullets, try something a little faster burning. I have had good results with Vihtavuori N135 and Accurate 2495. I love VARGET, I'm leaving it for my bigger rounds. Are you running rifle length gas? I opened up my gas port as well.

[corpsman8483]

I always crimp, ALWAYS CRIMP for my AR's; bolt gun not so much. Don't you just hate dumping pwd into the action; causes me to stop and do a complete lower clean out.

[StoneHendge]

Are you sure you're not overcycling and the next round doesn't have time to come up and feed? Those loads look hot and if the gas is wide open....

I get 2560 with a near max load of Varget and a 95 gr VLD in my 16" Lilja - and the VLD has a lot less bearing surface than an SST