Accurate 2520 and Leverevolution

[Bassfish1952]

From that video I have used both the Hornady case length gauge and modified case and the close the bolt seat the bullet method. Each has produced different results using the same bullet.

With the bolt seat method I feel I am actually jamming the bullet deeper into the lands or beyond a mere "touch". Which I now feel could be as much as .010" jam.

Have not tried the "glue-in" loc-tiite method.

So how about loc-tight on a modified case pushed in firmly then allowed to set up, That would relieve the bent plastic rod part and the jam in with a bolt part ?
I have everything here to do all 3 except the rifle. So I guess I will try all and pick one and as the guy in the video says do it the exact same way for the rest of my life.

Not trying to be funny just I hunt and zero with a little target practice throw in, I shoot 6arc and 6.5CM so I probably will come up with 1 or 2 rounds per cartridge and set up to do those forever.

Thanks for all to input .

[grayfox]

I think you are leading OP down a path of chasing a "ghost", the end of the rainbow, etc, something/ someplace you'll never arrive at. These guys like Eric C are perfectionists, shooting for that last 0.1" ctc of target. They typically have:
1. Precision high$$ resizing equipment that have virtually no variances in sizing tolerances
2. Precision trimming of every brass case every time
3. Use precision bullets that do not vary in any dimension, BTO, ogives, meplats, all of it
4. Precision seating
5. O yes, and a $$$thousand$$ rifle and scope, and trigger, etc. They buy barrels in multiples every year for their baby.
6. Obsess over every shot, every detail, and after 100 shots in a match their throat erodes 0.005-0.006", which makes them chase lands either every match, or sometimes even during the match.

Bless their hearts for all of this, I don't fault 'em, they do a lot to advance the technology of shooting and accuracy, but they are the brain surgeons of the art, we are the general practitioners. ... Well most of us are, I think. I mean no disrespect.

I read a lot of the precision rifle shooting articles, and certainly to be a champion you have to go the extra mile in everything.

So unless one is willing to go to those lengths and be that ocd, well, you get my point. Their results are more than 10 times as accurate as our typicals... most of us look for under 1 moa, 0.75 if we are really good; they look for the 0.1 moa's. And it takes each and every one of their methodologies to get there, you can't just try one or the other of them. If you want to chase that, certainly your right to do so, that's all fine.

This is all an IMO, of course. But the best advice I've seen for accuracy, other than tuning your loads to your barrel, is to seat most bullets (the secant-ogives with loooong tips might be the exception), if you can (b/c AR mags may not allow this) -- but for bolt guns, seat your bullets 0.060-0.080 or so, in this window, off the lands. Reason being (again, PRS blog), is testing showed that a consistently small group can be had with that jump range, and you don't have to chase lands, you don't have to worry about throat erosion and lands-movements for long runs of shots (in the hundreds). They won't be the smallest possible groups. You might not see 0.1's and 0.2's in your targets, but you will stay 0.75-ish without obsessing on finding those lands every time you go to the bench because they moved again. And can focus in on the other shooting issues you're trying to fix. (This is kinda the boat I find myself in, I'll admit!)

This is all my opinion, and like I said, those who want to go after the tiniest groupings, more power to ya. But be prepared to do a lot more than just "touch the lands"..... that's a moving target and a very, very small one, and could likely be even obscured by other things/practices you're doing and don't realize it. I'm admittedly too old (not enough time) and too budget-constrained (retired) and not ocd-enough to do that, although I do read up on all of it.

Ok, rant over. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

[Bassfish1952]

I think you are leading OP down a path of chasing a "ghost", the end of the rainbow, etc, something/ someplace you'll never arrive at.  These guys like Eric C are perfectionists, shooting for that last 0.1" ctc of target. They typically have:
1. Precision high$$ resizing equipment that have virtually no variances in sizing tolerances
2. Precision trimming of every brass case every time
3. Use precision bullets that do not vary in any dimension, BTO, ogives, meplats, all of it
4. Precision seating
5. O yes, and a $$$thousand$$ rifle and scope, and trigger, etc.  They buy barrels in multiples every year for their baby.
6. Obsess over every shot, every detail, and after 100 shots in a match their throat erodes 0.005-0.006", which makes them chase lands either every match, or sometimes even during the match.

Bless their hearts for all of this, I don't fault 'em, they do a lot to advance the technology of shooting and accuracy, but they are the brain surgeons of the art, we are the general practitioners.  ... Well most of us are, I think.  I mean no disrespect.

I read a lot of the precision rifle shooting articles, and certainly to be a champion you have to go the extra mile in everything.

So unless one is willing to go to those lengths and be that ocd, well, you get my point.  Their results are more than 10 times as accurate as our typicals... most of us look for under 1 moa, 0.75 if we are really good; they look for the 0.1 moa's.  And it takes each and every one of their methodologies to get there, you can't just try one or the other of them.  If you want to chase that, certainly your right to do so, that's all fine.

This is all an IMO, of course.  But the best advice I've seen for accuracy, other than tuning your loads to your barrel, is to seat most bullets (the secant-ogives with loooong tips might be the exception), if you can (b/c AR mags may not allow  this) -- but for bolt guns, seat your bullets 0.060-0.080 or so, in this window, off the lands.  Reason being (again, PRS blog), is testing showed that a consistently small group can be had with that jump range, and you don't have to chase lands, you don't have to worry about throat erosion and lands-movements for long runs of shots (in the hundreds).  They won't be the smallest possible groups.  You might not see 0.1's and 0.2's in your targets, but you will stay 0.75-ish without obsessing on finding those lands every time you go to the bench because they moved again.  And can focus in on the other shooting issues you're trying to fix.  (This is kinda the boat I find myself in, I'll admit!)

This is all my opinion, and like I said, those who want to go after the tiniest groupings, more power to ya.  But be prepared to do a lot more than just "touch the lands"..... that's a moving target and a very, very small one, and could likely be even obscured by other things/practices you're doing and don't realize it.  I'm admittedly too old (not enough time) and too budget-constrained (retired) and not ocd-enough to do that, although I do read up on all of it.

Ok, rant over.  Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

No feathers ruffled, you mentioned .060 off and that has come up in a lot of videos I have watched and in the books and articles I have read. Establish a base and go back .05-.06 or was it .005-.006 off I struggle with the zeros and that puts you in the zone
Also you rate yourself as a GP to their Brain surgeon . Well I'm still in grade school by that analogy , but working on it


Thanks

[grayfox]

Couple of great articles, lots of info to ponder... some history as well as more current stuff
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/03/2...practices/

this is one of the trio at the end of that article, they are all good but check this one out esp.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/04/0...ment-data/

[popgun]

Bassfish EC's method finds jam Bruce Teel's method finds touch.
The point I've been trying to make is that a lot of people conflate jam and touch. grayfox's recommendation of .060" off the lands is a good example of that. If you use jam as a starting point you could be .030" in the lands depending on neck tension, you don't know and can not use the jump he recommended, especially if he's going off touching and you certainly couldn't use my .004" into the lands example. That's my point and I think a lot of new reloaders get confused by that. No matter if it's a gas gun or bolt action.
I don't expect most to go to the level of the pros but adopting some of their methods would be beneficial. You don't need to check touch every few hundred rounds, just try seating out a little further if your groups start to fall apart. Being consistent with headspace and trim length is all good advice, but you don't need to go OCD about it to the level of the pros.

[rickt300]

From that video I have used both the Hornady case length gauge and modified case and the close the bolt seat the bullet method. Each has produced different results using the same bullet.

With the bolt seat method I feel I am actually jamming the bullet deeper into the lands or beyond a mere "touch". Which I now feel could be as much as .010" jam.

Have not tried the "glue-in" loc-tiite method.

So how about loc-tight on a modified case pushed in firmly then allowed to set up, That would relieve the bent plastic rod part and the jam in with a bolt part ?
I have everything here to do all 3 except the rifle. So I guess I will try all and pick one and as the guy in the video says do it the exact same way for the rest of my life.

Not trying to be funny just I hunt and zero with a little target practice throw in, I shoot 6arc and 6.5CM so I probably will come up with 1 or 2 rounds per cartridge and set up to do those forever.


Thanks for all to input .

Personally  I feel that if your chamber has a tight throat as mine does a little jump does no harm and accuracy is great. In fact my rifle shoots best with short bullets seated to where the full diameter of the base of the bullet is even with the shoulder. Doing the same thing forever? Boring. Beyond that I don't think I would want to use ammo that jams into the rifling for hunting.

[Bassfish1952]

From that video I have used both the Hornady case length gauge and modified case and the close the bolt seat the bullet method. Each has produced different results using the same bullet.

With the bolt seat method I feel I am actually jamming the bullet deeper into the lands or beyond a mere "touch". Which I now feel could be as much as .010" jam.

Have not tried the "glue-in" loc-tiite method.

So how about loc-tight on a modified case pushed in firmly then allowed to set up, That would relieve the bent plastic rod part and the jam in with a bolt part ?
I have everything here to do all 3 except the rifle. So I guess I will try all and pick one and as the guy in the video says do it the exact same way for the rest of my life.

Not trying to be funny just I hunt and zero with a little target practice throw in, I shoot 6arc and 6.5CM so I probably will come up with 1 or 2 rounds per cartridge and set up to do those forever.


Thanks for all to input .

Personally  I feel that if your chamber has a tight throat as mine does a little jump does no harm and accuracy is great. In fact my rifle shoots best with short bullets seated to where the full diameter of the base of the bullet is even with the shoulder. Doing the same thing forever? Boring. Beyond that I don't think I would want to use ammo that jams into the rifling for hunting.

Well I like boring in some things, since I am mainly hunting I plan on the 103 eldx and the 90 gmx or cx Hornady and it won't be jam but may be jam and back off some.
A lot of good info on here . I'll take what works for me and go with it. As for boring , once I get something I like I don't change unless something better comes along. BUT I do  change up the places I go . Hunting Alabama, Georgia and SC so far ,my other hobby is fishing so far it's all over the US, Mexico and Brazil for their Peacock Bass.

Thanks for your input

[rickt300]

Yep as I get older fishing takes up a lot more of my time. Not sure if your rifle is a bolt gun but in an AR seating away from the lands is a good thing. I have a long throated 308 with the SAAMI loose throat and it does shoot best with the bullets touching the lands. That means match bullets are seated way out there and hunting bullets more normally. Odd that the hunting bullets accuracy varies far less with a bit of jump than the basic 168 gr. Sierra match bullets.

[Newmexican]

Very useful thread, especially grayfox's common-sense summation in post #22.

[Bassfish1952]

Couple of great articles, lots of info to ponder... some history as well as more current stuff
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/03/2...practices/

this is one of the trio at the end of that article, they are all good but check this one out esp.
https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/04/0...ment-data/

I have read and reread those articles . Thanks for listing them I would have never found them on my own.