Trouble converting 6.5 to 6mm arc

[betolatinlu]

I have been reloading for over 50 years .I have never had this problem before. I am currently using Hornady 6.5 Grendel brass to form 6mm arc cases. I have already ruined over 40 cases so far. When I run my 6.5 Grendel cases thru my 6 mm arc dies after setting them up for decapping it crushes 'em. If I am lucky enough to get one NOT  crushed I simply CANNOT  set the headspace . What am I doing wrong ? If I can get it to enter a GO guage, the headspace is so far off that I once again crush it trying to set the headspace . SOS !!!!

[Dino11]

Which dies are you using and have you removed the decapping pin before sizing?

It also helps if you first anneal the brass before attempting to resize it.

Some dies require a little trimming before sizing as well. need a little more information to give you an educated answer.

[grayfox]

Yes please a couple more details. Annealing and first trimming the length were the first 2 things that occurred to me also. The grendel case is about 0.030 longer so that can run up against internal stops inside the sizing die.
There are a couple places you can get 6Arc ammo for not too expensive... have you looked at that also, if for nothing than to get some cases fired from your chamber for some comparisons.

[StoneHendge]

Trim BEFORE you size. The rim of your case is likely hitting the top of your die. That was the case with my Hornady die.

[Old Bob]

See what happens if you use a de-cap die on your Grendel brass first & then run them in your 6 ARC die with the expander rod/ball removed. If you still get crunched brass, It's probably caused by the die internal stop as mentioned by grayfox & Stonehendge. Your brass will need a little trimming before resizing if that's the case.

I've not reformed any fired Grendel brass to 6 ARC but I have reformed a bunch of new Grendel brass (Lapua, Hornady & Starline) to 6 ARC without any problems at all. The new Grendel brass might be a little shorter than fired brass... just a guess. I run the reformed brass through a separate expander die (.241" dia.) before final trimming.

[betolatinlu]

Yes please a couple more details.  Annealing and first trimming the length were the first 2 things that occurred to me also.  The grendel case is about 0.030 longer so that can run up against internal stops inside the sizing die.
There are a couple places you can get 6Arc ammo for not too expensive... have you looked at that also, if for nothing than to get some cases fired from your chamber for some comparisons.

I am using Hornady 6mm arc FL dies. Some of the brass is 6.5 Grendel that I fired in  my gun. First I annealed them then I trimmmed them. I used a li8ght coat of Imperial Wax and then run them thru my 6mm arc dies. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING  I do will change the headspace on my cases. Up or down on the dies changes NOTHING . I have ruined so many cases that I am about to give up.I have been playing with this project for about three days now and I am about to say "YOU WIN".If I knew where I could buy some factory brass I would just s__t can this mess.

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I will trim before sizing and see if that helps.Thanks fellas.

[Old Bob]

Yes please a couple more details.  Annealing and first trimming the length were the first 2 things that occurred to me also.  The grendel case is about 0.030 longer so that can run up against internal stops inside the sizing die.
There are a couple places you can get 6Arc ammo for not too expensive... have you looked at that also, if for nothing than to get some cases fired from your chamber for some comparisons.

I am using Hornady 6mm arc FL dies. Some of the brass is 6.5 Grendel that I fired in  my gun. First I annealed them then I trimmmed them. I used a li8ght coat of Imperial Wax and then run them thru my 6mm arc dies. NOTHING and I mean NOTHING  I do will change the headspace on my cases. Up or down on the dies changes NOTHING . I have ruined so many cases that I am about to give up.I have been playing with this project for about three days now and I am about to say "YOU WIN".If I knew where I could buy some factory brass I would just s__t can this mess.

---

I will trim before sizing and see if that helps.Thanks fellas.

betolatinlu...

I found some 6 ARC ammo at Grab-A-Gun if you want to get some. It goes fast so don't wait...

https://grabagun.com/hornady-precision-h...eld-x.html

Still can't find new brass anywhere yet. Maybe this will get you started...

[betolatinlu]

Tried buying som,e----I ilve in California .

[GRH]

The only time I've collapsed a shoulder is when I didn't have the neck lubed enough. I use Imperial and just scrape a little off my fingers and it has not happened since. Any excess gets cooked off when I anneal, followed by a tumble as the finishing step.

I put mine together this past winter and summer projects are interfering with the load development, but after I get things sorted out the plan is to get a bushing die to neck size which will eliminate the issue all together.

[r.tenorio671]

...when attempting to convert 6.5G brass to 6ARC, the 6ARC expander ball won't touch the walls of the case mouth when entering the casing, it will only touch the walls AFTER the shoulder has been bumped and case neck sized down to 6mm and the casing is being extracted from the die. A couple of suggestions (1) Remove your decapping rod. (2) Back off your sizing die so that only the neck is sized from 6.5 to 6mm, measure the shoulder bump dimension. (3) Adjust die down until the desired shoulder bump is achieved. If at any point the case crushes/collapses during this process, then you will be able to identify if the casing is too long & hitting the internal step at the top of the die, requiring trimming before sizing.

If no crushing occurs during the above, you can now use a fresh casing with the decapping rod inserted back into the die. What needs to be done is to ensure you have the rod adjusted down enough to pass thru the neck BEFORE the neck is resized, as well as deep enough to push the primer out. IF the expander ball is too high up, it will be attempting to enter the neck as it is being squeezed down to 6mm and could cause the buckling/crushing you are experiencing. You want to adjust that decapping rod/expander to pass thru the case mouth/neck BEFORE the neck is squeezed down and pass thru the neck on the upward stroke as it EXITS the now sized casing.

I too use the Hornady 6ARC dies and have successfully converted 300 virgin STARLINE 6.5G brass without crushing. The only crushing I have encountered was during seating of bullets, specifically Hornady 108 ELDM's. My expedient solution was to rub just a bit of Imperial wax on the bullet bases before seating.

I did anneal the virgin brass before sizing in order to get a better defined shoulder bump during the sizing, less "rounded" looking edges at the junction of case body and shoulder. It wasn't really necessary, I also sized unannealed brass and it performed identically when actually fired.

Despite having the same brand of dies, differences between individual dies can be encountered....and compounded by the brand of press, shell plate, etc. being used. FWIW, taking the time to ensure adjustment of your die and maybe a couple of sacrificial cases is worth it before going into batch processing of the brass.

FWIW, my process for conversion was (1) anneal brass (2) size/convert (3) trim, debur (4) quick wet tumble to clean lube, brass shavings (4) prime, load & shoot.

[GRH]

...when attempting to convert 6.5G brass to 6ARC, the 6ARC expander ball won't touch the walls of the case mouth when entering the casing, it will only touch the walls AFTER the shoulder has been bumped.

You'll have to forgive, it was early and I hadn't finished my coffee yet. Quite right of course...duh

[Cwlongshot]

Was ta able to over come the difficulties?

CW

[6arcgene]

Unlike the author of this thread, I have not reloaded for 50 years. But I have been successful and here is how.
1. I always deprime my cases with a universal deprimer.
2. Then I anneal my cases
3. I lube my cases with the lanoline / alcohol method and the run my Grendel cases through a LEE full size die WITHOUT THE EXPANDER BALL / depriming pin.
4. It indeed bottoms out the top of the neck (and distorts it a bit) but I will trim it to the proper 6 ARC case length afterwards.
5. Run the proper 6mm EXPANDER through the cases to open the neck for proper neck tension.
6. Trim.
6. Run through a case gauge to verify.
7. Prime, charge, seat bullet and go.

No problems at all with my method so far.
Note: I SHOULD PROBABLY trim a few thousand before running the brass through the sizing die to keep the top of the neck from bottoming out.... and I will probably do that the next time. I just did this for the first time recently.

LEE DIES have proven to be the best for me when reforming cases to a new caliber. cheap and great. 

Hope this helps.

Gene

[Cwlongshot]

Ironically cause LEE them selves says that there does are not designed or i tended to reform cases.

CW