90gr GMX for deer

[Bassfish1952]

Ok I broke down and ordered a basic reloading press kit. 
I have LR powder, Hornady once fired brass, 90gr Hornady GMX and CCI 400 primers

Was looking at Hornady's reloading app. and starting at 29.5gr of LR gives 2283FPS and over 1000lbs energy at 250yds. which is about as far as I will be shooting

Can I start there and work up assuming that if I see no signs of over pressure and get good grouping would I be safe to hunt that load this coming year ?

There are 6 steps to Max from there so would that be a safe place to start and would 50 rounds be enough to determine a good load ? 5 rounds at each step 

I have not bought a Chronograph yet

Thanks

[grayfox]

What is your barrel length, again (I forget).
For an 18" barrel and hornady data, 29.5 is MV of 2600 (18"), and <1000 ke at 250 yds. 1000 ke at ~175 yds for 18" barrel. For my 18" I can get 2765 for a sierra 90 tgk (with LVR) (2.260 and 30.7 of LVR) but that is a cup/core so a mono likely won't get that fast... For that bullet's BC you'll need at least 2730 MV to have 1000 ke at 250.

Have you done an OAL seating test to see what OAL you can use with your barrel and that GMX.
Be advised that #400 primers could get pierced in an AR due to thinner thickness of the cup.
#41's or #450's, or 205ARs, are a safer bet.

I have encountered full cases sometimes, at less than "book" max loads, so be on the alert.

Without a chrony... well, you know.
Suggest using 0.3 gr delta between loads, that's about 1% of case fill and if there is a good node you don't want to miss it with a delta too large. 29.5, 29.8, 30.1, etc. OK, that delta gives you about 6 load steps to 31.1...

[CZ527 Guy]

Yes

With a few caveats.

First off LR (Leverevolution) May or may not shoot well in your rifle with the bullets at hand.

Some powders just seem to be the pixie dust that allow small groups with a given bullet.

To help you visualize this Go to Nosler.com look at the load data for another caliber that they have data for. As of yet they do not have data for the 6mm ARC. Bear with me here. Nosler offers some neat info that is not offered in total elsewhere. They offer case fill percentage, most accurate charge weight tested & most accurate powder tested. Your results may or mayn't mimic there results.

Notice: with any caliber say 6.5 Creedmoor for example how diffrent powders are listed as more accurate for different weight bullets. Then notice how different charge weights offer top accuracy while one powder works well at upper velocity limit. Then another propellant offers best accuracy nearer the lower limit. Not exactly, always,  straightforward.

Sometimes there are combinations that just shoot great in most all rifles. 6mm ARC has had relatively little time to have brought this info to the top yet. been especially difficult with component shortages.

If it were me I would start off with what we call a ladder test. You somewhat express this is your intention.
Would a chronograph help? You bet.
Nessisary? Not exactly.
is there a learning curve to the chronograph? Absolutely.

given the expense of the all copper bullets I would start my learning curve to reloading with a less expensive bullet. say a smilar weight cup & core bullet. Ill choose a 90 gr ELDX. you may go a diffrent direction. Will the data you glean from this cup & core test translate directly to your all copper bullet? Not likely.

Ok we can do our ladder test with your powder & bullet that is very similar in weight.

I would load 1 round at the low end of the spectrum. Write the grain weight on the casing with a fine tip permanent marker. load another 1/2 grain heavier & lable with marker. Work your way up to the max load with the 1/2 grain increases.
goal will be to test for shift in point of impact & or change in velocity.

For testing point of impact your means of resting the rifle will need to be very steady in a repeatable fashion throuought the shot string. I am thinking a front bipod or bags. Rear of the rife will be steadied with a bag as well. With no chronograph involved I would fire one round & hopefully your impact is within a few inches if the point of aim. not sure about your range setup, though in my case I would go when not likely to be at all busy.

So my routine would set target at 100 yards,  fire 1st low charge round. Walk down range & lable that point of impact as 1. inspect case for primer forme & proceed to the next higher charge weight round. take your time 7 fire another very steady shot 7 mark this impact as no 2. Proceed in the same manner through all charge weights.

What you are looking for is charge weights that do not change point of impact much ac the charge weight steps up a half grain or down a half grain.

Question for yourself is are you steady enough that your results are not significantly impacted by shooter error?
As you reach the upper limit you may see flattened primers or difficult bolt lift. You may need to stop with increased charge weights if pressure signs are telling you to back off.

While Lever evolution offers the most potential velocity: LVR may or may not offer the accuracy you are hoping for. LVR has its place for sure, May or may not be with your GMX bullets in terms of long range accuracy. Some times it takes trying another propellant to find the magic pixie dust.

Personally, I did not hold out a great deal of hope for LVR under the longer 90 grain GMX or CX bullets as I expect the powder may be, too compressed at the upper charge limits. Additionally LVR is not very temp stable. Lesser temp stability has the potential to translate to a load shooting well at 40 degrees, though not shooting well at 90 degrees & over pressure at 90 degrees. 

Or, a load that shoots well at 90 degrees F may may or may not shoot well at 30 or 40 F are question marks I prefer to not need to worry about.

[Bassfish1952]

What is your barrel length, again (I forget).
For an 18" barrel and hornady data, 29.5 is MV of 2600 (18"), and  <1000 ke at 250 yds.  1000 ke at ~175 yds for 18" barrel.  For my 18" I can get 2765 for a sierra 90 tgk (with LVR) (2.260 and 30.7 of LVR) but that is a cup/core so a mono likely won't get that fast...  For that bullet's BC you'll need at least 2730 MV to have 1000 ke at 250.

Have you done an OAL seating test to see what OAL you can use with your barrel and that GMX.
Be advised that #400 primers could get pierced in an AR due to thinner thickness of the cup.
#41's or #450's, or 205ARs, are a safer bet.

I have encountered full cases sometimes, at less than "book" max loads, so be on the alert.

Without a chrony... well,  you know.
Suggest using 0.3 gr delta between loads, that's about 1% of case fill and if there is a good node you don't want to miss it with a delta too large. 29.5, 29.8, 30.1, etc.  OK, that delta gives you about 6 load steps to 31.1...

24" barrel and using both Hornady reloading app. and Hornady Ballistic Cal. for info. I am trying to duplicate Hornadays 90gr GMX Bolt Gun data that is in their app. I do have a OAL gauge and I just got 100 primers so if I don't like I'm not out a lot. (they were what my local store had)

[Bassfish1952]

Yes

With a few caveats.

First off LR (Leverevolution) May or may not shoot well in your rifle with the bullets at hand.

Some powders just seem to be the pixie dust that allow small groups with a given bullet.

To help you visualize this Go to Nosler.com look at the load data for another caliber that they have data for. As of yet they do not have data for the 6mm ARC. Bear with me here. Nosler offers some neat info that is not offered in total elsewhere. They offer case fill percentage, most accurate charge weight tested & most accurate powder tested. Your results may or mayn't mimic there results.

Notice: with any caliber say 6.5 Creedmoor for example how diffrent powders are listed as more accurate for different weight bullets. Then notice how different charge weights offer top accuracy while one powder works well at upper velocity limit. Then another propellant offers best accuracy nearer the lower limit. Not exactly, always,  straightforward.

Sometimes there are combinations that just shoot great in most all rifles. 6mm ARC has had relatively little time to have brought this info to the top yet. been especially difficult with component shortages.

If it were me I would start off with what we call a ladder test. You somewhat express this is your intention.
Would a chronograph help? You bet.
Nessisary? Not exactly.
is there a learning curve to the chronograph? Absolutely.

given the expense of the all copper bullets I would start my learning curve to reloading with a less expensive bullet. say a smilar weight cup & core bullet. Ill choose a 90 gr ELDX. you may go a diffrent direction. Will the data you glean from this cup & core test translate directly to your all copper bullet? Not likely.

Ok we can do our ladder test with your powder & bullet that is very similar in weight.

I would load 1 round at the low end of the spectrum. Write the grain weight on the casing with a fine tip permanent marker. load another 1/2 grain heavier & lable with marker. Work your way up to the max load with the 1/2 grain increases.
goal will be to test for shift in point of impact & or change in velocity.

For testing point of impact your means of resting the rifle will need to be very steady in a repeatable fashion throuought the shot string. I am thinking a front bipod or bags. Rear of the rife will be steadied with a bag as well. With no chronograph involved I would fire one round & hopefully your impact is within a few inches if the point of aim. not sure about your range setup, though in my case I would go when not likely to be at all busy.

So my routine would set target at 100 yards,  fire 1st low charge round. Walk down range & lable that point of impact as 1. inspect case for primer forme & proceed to the next higher charge weight round. take your time 7 fire another very steady shot 7 mark this impact as no 2. Proceed in the same manner through all charge weights.

What you are looking for is charge weights that do not change point of impact much ac the charge weight steps up a half grain or down a half grain.

Question for yourself is are you steady enough that your results are not significantly impacted by shooter error?
As you reach the upper limit you may see flattened primers or difficult bolt lift. You may need to stop with increased charge weights if pressure signs are telling you to back off.

While Lever evolution offers the most potential velocity: LVR may or may not offer the accuracy you are hoping for. LVR has its place for sure, May or may not be with your GMX bullets in terms of long range accuracy. Some times it takes trying another propellant to find the magic pixie dust.

Personally, I did not hold out a great deal of hope for LVR under the longer 90 grain GMX or CX bullets as I expect the powder may be, too compressed at the upper charge limits. Additionally LVR is not very temp stable. Lesser temp stability has the potential to translate to a load shooting well at 40 degrees, though not shooting well at 90 degrees & over pressure at 90 degrees. 

Or, a load that shoots well at 90 degrees F may may or may not shoot well at 30 or 40 F are question marks I prefer to not need to worry about.

Been watching a lot of YouTube and as much as I can on the 6arc reloading and for now trying to learn from others. I will use an indoor 100yd range for zero and will for this testing . But I just shot at an outdoor range that had a lead sled type rest and am getting one of those before the choreograph . 
I have 150 of the GMX so if I can work up a hunting load with 50 I would have 5 or 6 years of hunting left with the remaining 100. I do have some 90gr CX, I know they are not the same but are listed together on Hornadys reloading app and will sooner or later be availabile so using a few of them as practice would seem to be a good idea.
The numbers I have working out of the Hornady app are 
29.5 gr at 2800fps at barrel and 2283fps at 250yds and over a 1000pounds of energy working up to a max of 32.3gr at 3050 barrel and 2255fps at 375yds and again over 1000 ponds of energy with 6 steps between the 2 
Thanks to both of you guys you have been a big help, I incorporate some of what both of you recommend it helps.

---

One last thing for now.

If I set my target at 50yds instead of 100 would it make any real difference in overall results, Since I use smaller scopes 2x7 and 3x9 I normally check my zero at 50 before moving out to 100. It seems to remove some of the error ?

[grayfox]

It's fine to check zero at 50 or even 25, that's what I do after boresighting (you should get one of those things... very helpful and not expensive). I have ~13 yds indoors so I bore sight for ~1.5" low, then I know I am on paper. Then work out from 25 to the 100 for final zero.

Footnote, the recoil kick is not real hard on the 6Arc (very minimal), instead of a lead sled I'd recommend a nice muzzle brake. Takes all the muzzle flip out of the equation. On a 24" the noise back to you will not be too bad (use hearing pro anyway!).
Get the VG 65 gamma, 6.5mm if you can find them - they are tops. And a knurled jam nut, or the accuwasher set. Not crush washers they will screw up your bore performance.

Actually with a 24" you could probably skip the brake also, just have a front rest like the caldwell mini rock and a good sand bag/ rear sand rest for the butt stock.

Not much $$, but lots of value. You can tell what kind of shooter I am, economics/value oriented.

---

But as to the question about 50 yds, ok for starters but you really want to take it to 100.

[Bassfish1952]

It's fine to check zero at 50 or even 25, that's what I do after boresighting (you should get one of those things... very helpful and not expensive).  I have ~13 yds indoors so I bore sight  for ~1.5" low, then I know I am on paper.  Then work out from 25 to the 100 for final zero.

Footnote, the recoil kick is not real hard on the 6Arc (very minimal), instead of a lead sled I'd recommend a nice muzzle brake.  Takes all the muzzle flip out of the equation.  On a 24" the noise back to you will not be too bad (use hearing pro anyway!).
Get the VG 65 gamma, 6.5mm if you can find them - they are tops.  And a knurled jam nut,  or the accuwasher set.  Not crush washers they will screw up your bore performance.

Actually with a 24" you could probably skip the brake also, just have a front rest like the caldwell mini rock and a good sand bag/ rear sand rest for the butt stock.

Not much $$, but lots of value.  You can tell what kind of shooter I am, economics/value oriented.

---

But as to the question about 50 yds, ok for starters but you really want to take it to 100.

Thanks
I have an indoor range couple miles away that goes to 100yds. I'll do my basic work up there, No wind and a machine to return target after every shot if I want to . But it charges by the hr. and you can only do 1hr at a time depending on waiting line. Then move to an outdoor range 38 miles away that has 100yd and a 200yd along with a great snack bar   I took my Grandson there recently , Run by some really nice and safe people.
Not sure if they work but may try one of these , read about them but haven't worked up to one yet    


https://www.shootsmallgroups.com/product...ner-brake/

[grayfox]

Ok, my opinion on these...
But first, we used to have an indoor 100 yd range with the returning targets thing but unfortunately it just closed down, owner's health.
I did a lot of shooting and load dev there, it was a great place (Northern Va).
On those tuners, got into a bit of discussion on them yesterday at the outdoor range I'll be using now.
My conclusion of them is, for a fixed ammo (fixed bullet/charge), varying the "barrel length" like this tuner does, could help although objective reviews are few and far between. Chris Long's OBT (the method I use) looks to find the load/bullet that works for a fixed length barrel. Something you have a lot more control over. The guy at the range was using a tuner on is 10/22, and I think on a 223, but admitted he doesn't do -- and doesn't believe in -- developing handloads.
On the PRS websites and Accurate shooter sites, all the surveys I have seen say winning shooters use either hand loads, or a very few do use some factory match loads that work well for them in one of their barrels. I didn't see any tuners, now maybe I've just forgotten but sure haven't made an impression on me as to $$ well spent.
So spending ~$250 - that much on a piece of gear that might provide a small benefit, doesn't make sense to me. I did a review of brakes couple yrs ago, to see who evaluated them for actual recoil reduction and muzzle rise, to see some, again, objective tests with repeatable data. That's how I landed on the VG 65 gamma's. Costing from $50-$75 and using a jam nut means they are cost effective and self "tunable" so you don't spend $150 on a GS doing the mounting/tuning of the brake onto your barrel.
For a 24" 6 Arc, like I mentioned, the recoil is right minimal, less than a 223 IMO.
Load workups work. And they allow you to get familiar with your gun, which is a definite need.

[CZ527 Guy]

Bassfish:

I hope you did not get many of the CCI 400 primers.

Federal 205 is generally the primer listed in load data. Fed 205 has a cup thickness of .0225"  Then we have  CCI 450 & BR4's at .025" cup thickness

Rem 7 1/2 come in at .027 cup thickness. These are the primers I would consider for loading 6mm ARC bolt action upper pressure loads.

The CCI 400 primer cup thickness comes in at .025" look up (primer cup thickness chart) for a reference. The 400 primers will do ok at lower pressures. Though you can expect flattened & cratered primers as you approach upper gas gun pressures much less upper end bolt gun pressure.

link below

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

[Bassfish1952]

Bassfish:

I hope you did not get many of the CCI 400 primers.

Federal 205 is generally the primer listed in load data. Fed 205 has a cup thickness of .0225"  Then we have  CCI 450 & BR4's at .025" cup thickness

Rem 7 1/2 come in at .027 cup thickness. These are the primers I would consider for loading 6mm ARC bolt action upper pressure loads.

The CCI 400 primer cup thickness comes in at .025" look up (primer cup thickness chart) for a reference. The 400 primers will do ok at lower pressures. Though you can expect flattened & cratered primers as you approach upper gas gun pressures much less upper end bolt gun pressure.

link below

http://www.jamescalhoon.com/primers_and_pressure.php

I got 100 primers at a low price so not a problem if I can find the others. I'll run thru this powder and see where I'm at after all it"s for hunting 1 MOA is good for me . We'll go from there. 

Thanks guys