Best Hunting Bullet past 300yds ?

[Bassfish1952]

When I started with the 6arc, I wanted to limit myself to 300yds or less and move to all copper style bullets (CX,GMX, Hammer ). At the time I was going up to fund raising hunts in Alabama that had a lot of less than 300yd shots. Now I have settled down to one guy in Alabama that has a lot more open area and longer shots (out to 500yds)
On Paper the CX style bullets lose power fast after 300 and don't appear to be the best for longer range.
I'm looking at the Hornady 103ELDX Factory loads , used them this year and was happy with them even though box stated 2800 and the ones I shot were more in the 2750 range. They did a good job and with reloading seem to have room to improve. 
What other bullets have you guys used that would work well for what I'm doing?


Thanks

[grayfox]

I have not tried anything beyond 300, the 103 would be one of my choices too.
Berger has a 105 Vld hunter that I can get to 2720 in my 22", it keeps 1000 ke to 425 yds.

But that seems like a "fur piece" if you know what I mean. Personally I'd use one of my Creedmoors at those distances, either 6.5 with 130-143 gr, or 6mm Creed with that 105 berger, 2950+ and not pushing it too hard, gets out to 525.
In my long pipes one (paper) exercise I do is to evaluate which loads could do an antelope at 425 yds (the closest distance I've seen them before they start to move) and the creeds are the go-to ones for that type of hunting out west... for me. I want to stay in the short actions, at most.

[Bassfish1952]

I have not tried anything beyond 300, the 103 would be one of my choices too.
Berger has a 105 Vld hunter that I can get to 2720 in my 22", it keeps 1000 ke to 425 yds.

But that seems like a "fur piece" if you know what I mean. Personally I'd use one of my Creedmoors at those distances, either 6.5 with 130-143 gr, or 6mm Creed with that 105 berger, 2950+ and not pushing it too hard, gets out to 525.
In my long pipes one (paper) exercise I do is to evaluate which loads could do an antelope at 425 yds (the closest distance I've seen them before they start to move) and the creeds are the go-to ones for that type of hunting out west... for me.  I want to stay in the short actions, at most.

Thanks 

I'm trying to stay with the 6arc, I really like the gun I have , with the 24" barrel I think with a lot of practice I should be good to 400-425 . I have a couple of nice 6.5 CM's  so next year I'm going to work up a load with the 103 ELDX or something like it to try in the ARC and take my CM along just in case. 

It seems to me the factory ammo is a little below what's on the box , I clocked some at around 2750 and am looking at maybe being able to better that with an accurate load and will be taking a popup blind along to maybe setup instead of using their blinds . Don't want to out shoot what I am capable of but still like to bring home some meat .

I'll look at the Berger

[grayfox]

I just took one of my accurate 103 hand loads in my 22", and extrapolated it for 24". The accuracy node shifted a bit, but I tweaked the grains some and by my estimates using Lvr you might get 2830's with that 103 eldx for 24" barrel... which would be very close to a node for you.
I don't try to push the ksi limits even in the bolt action.
At 450 yds you would be looking at estimated 2108 fps and 1016 ke. All estimates on paper, no real world data. 7.4-7.5 Moa at that distance, drop wise (zero at 100).
After I chronied such a load, I would definitely try it for at least 300 yds to verify performance before taking it into the field. That is, if I couldn't do it at 400 or 450. My range has some 200 & 300 yd steel.

[Bassfish1952]

I just took one of my accurate 103 hand loads in my 22", and extrapolated it for 24".  The accuracy node shifted a bit, but I tweaked the grains some and by my estimates using Lvr you might get 2830's with that 103 eldx for 24" barrel... which would be very close to a node for  you.
I don't try to push the ksi limits even in the bolt action.
At 450 yds you would be looking at estimated 2108 fps and 1016 ke.  All estimates on paper, no real world data.  7.4-7.5 Moa at that distance, drop wise (zero at 100).
After I chronied such a load, I would definitely try it for at least 300 yds to verify performance before taking it into the field.  That is, if I couldn't do it at 400 or 450.  My range has some 200 & 300 yd steel.

I have 200yd range BUT I was talking to the guy in Alabama about going up and shooting hogs . If I can do that I would be able to shoot targets from the blinds I will be using next year . Hornady data shows the 103 up to 2850 so I'm going to make some starting with their 2700 load and up from there with the 103 and any other bullets that are recommended

Thanks

[SBRSarge]

What are you hunting Bassfish? I’ve been looking at some Alabama hog hunts.

[Bassfish1952]

What are you hunting Bassfish? I’ve been looking at some Alabama hog hunts.

He doesn't do hog hunts BUT last year he said his hog problem was getting worse and offered money off the deer hunt for anyone that shot a hog. I am approaching him about just hog hunting but haven't gotten anything back yet.

[300BLK]

Are you thinking the 90gr Hornady ELDX and 90gr Sierra Tipped Game Kings are too light? I was thinking them to be a good compromise between weight and BC.

[Bassfish1952]

300BLKAre you thinking the 90gr Hornady ELDX and 90gr Sierra Tipped Game Kings are too light?  I was thinking them to be a good compromise between weight and BC.
Everything works out to about 300 but after that the lighter bullets seem to drop off . I have not tried it yet but the 103 up around 2850 on paper gives solid knock down numbers out to 450 or so. 
Right now I have a box of 90gr ELDX, one of 87gr Hammer , one of 90gr CX and 2 boxes of 90gr GMX to play with and have all year to try it all out.

I am curious about the 87gr Hammer AH and what are the max speed that can be gotten from it and still be accurate .  
I'm just not sure the ARC was meant to be a hunting round out that far. I know it works as a target round or as a war round beyond that but am concerned about a clean kill at distance on a deer.



On paper at max speed 3050  on Hornady reloading app. the 90 ELDXwould retain a little over a 1,000lbs energy at 350and be under at 375. I know that a lot of people use a lot less and if I get some practical experience showing it works maybe but for now I'm trying to find the best out to 500. I don't think I will ever go that far but am trying to get better and reach a little farther each time I go.

I'm thinking my best bet is a portable blind that I set up closer to where I'm seeing deer

[grayfox]

The other consideration for these bullets, in addition to the 1000 ke, is that you are above their min opening speed. To be reliable, and to compensate for ambitious guesses just "slightly" beyond distance, I try to set +150 over the published minimum velocity, to ensure adequate opening. For the eldx, you can check hornady but IIRC they are at 2000, maybe 1800, min opening. So the 90 eldx, just be aware of that. the sierra 90 tgk has some advantage because its BC is .490, where the 90 eldx is .409, thus tgk has more velocity at a given yards than the hdy... I have and like both of them but want to stay inside all of the boundary conditions...

[Bassfish1952]

The other consideration for these bullets, in addition to the 1000 ke, is that you are above their min opening speed.  To be reliable, and to compensate for ambitious guesses just "slightly" beyond distance, I try to set +150 over the published minimum velocity, to ensure adequate opening.  For the eldx, you can check hornady but IIRC they are at 2000, maybe 1800, min opening.  So the 90 eldx, just be aware of that.  the sierra 90 tgk has some advantage because its BC is .490, where the 90 eldx is .409, thus tgk has more velocity at a given yards than the hdy... I have and like both of them but want to stay inside all of the boundary conditions...

I have read or heard for CX and GMX it has to be 2300 or better and on ELDX 103 1900 but I have no idea where to find that information. But that is one reason for picking the 103 ELDX it seems to have the most retained energy and speed out to the 500yd line . But that is pushing it at max pressure. 
It's also one reason I went with a 24" barrel so I could wring every bit if range and energy out of the 6ARC and with how short and handy this rifle is I wish I had gone 26" barrel.

Looking at Sierra Bullets the 100gr tsk comes closer to and beats the Hornady 103 ELDX if it can be pushed as. fast as the 100gr Hornady at 2900. With a BC of .515 that it retains down to 1900 fps it looks like it would outperform the 103eldx. It stays over 2000fps beyond 500yds

[grayfox]

agree about trying the 103, the heavier bullets retain more knockdown the farther out you have to go.
I have some 100 tgk's and they do run well in my 22", but they have been oos/unobtanium everywhere I've looked since they popped up the first time, don't see any of them now only the 90's. what a shame. I am reluctant to load and shoot when I can't replace them...

[Bassfish1952]

agree about trying the 103, the heavier bullets retain more knockdown the farther out you have to go.
I have some 100 tgk's and they do run well in my 22", but they have been oos/unobtanium everywhere I've looked since they popped up the first time, don't see any of them now only the 90's.  what a shame.  I am reluctant to load and shoot when I can't replace them...

Well it looks like the 103eldx for now and just 400yds for a clean kill and that will require me to do a lot of practice . I just don't see the 6arc as a hunting rifle out past 400.
I know for hitting steel or warfare but a humane harvest of deer not for me .
I am going to invest in a portable blind and practice, practice , practice .



Thanks for the comments

[CZ527 Guy]

I have been deer hunting for a lot of years in open country. I have yet to reach a point where I would casually consider a rifle shot, on a deer at distances over 300 yards. Few hunters I know are willing to consider a shot on game over 200 yards much less 400 or 500 yards.

While the 6mm Arc can be a capable round at greater distances, I would argue few hunters are able to shoot reliably enough to insure a vital hit at such distances.

Making a poor hit on paper at 400 yards is one thing. Making a poor hit on a deer at 400 yards is quite another. I ask that you practice at 300, 400 & 500 yards. If you are able to consistently hit a grape fruit sized target with your chosen hunting ammo, then and only then would I even consider taking a shot at a deer at such distances.

If you find a load that shoots well in your rifle, If you are in an extrordenarly stable shooting position & if you have practiced a lot with your load that shoots really well, The 103 grain ELDX may be one of my top choices for a long distance hunting bullet.

[Bassfish1952]

CZ527 Guy pid='6780' dateline='1707352723']I have been deer hunting for a lot of years in open country. I have yet to reach a point where I would casually consider a rifle shot, on a deer at distances over 300 yards. Few hunters I know are willing to consider a shot on game over 200 yards much less 400 or 500 yards.

While the 6mm Arc can be a capable round at greater distances, I would argue few hunters are able to shoot reliably enough to insure a vital hit at such distances.

Making a poor hit on paper at 400 yards is one thing. Making a poor hit on a deer at 400 yards is quite another. I ask that you practice at 300, 400 & 500 yards. If you are able to consistently hit a grape fruit sized target with your chosen hunting ammo, then and only then would I even consider taking a shot at a deer at such distances.

If you find a load that shoots well in your rifle, If you are in an extrordenarly stable shooting position & if you have practiced a lot with your load that shoots really well, The 103 grain ELDX may be one of my top choices for a long distance hunting bullet[/quote]
Maximum Point Blank Range Calculator

This calculates the maximum point blank range (MPBR) of a firearm. MPBR is the farthest distance you are able to shoot a firearm without holding over. This calculator will give you the range you should zero your rifle in order to have the largest MPBR as possible. In order to calculate this you need to input the size of your target. The vital zone of the animal you are hunting is often a inputted as the target size.



Drag Function: G1
Ballistic Coefficient: 0.512
Initial Velocity: 2800 fps
Sight Height : 1.6 in
Target Size: 3 in
International Standard Atmosphere
Altitude: Sea Level (0 ft)
Barometric Pressure: 29.92 Hg
Temperature: 59° F
Relative Humidity: 50%
Speed of Sound: 1116 fps
Near Zero:
34 yards
Far Zero:
187 yards
Minimum PBR:
1 yards
Maximum PBR:
217 yards
Sight-in at 100yds:
  1.45" high

       

In the wood blind the deer have been coming out 100-220 yds all 3 of my deer this trip came from that blind. The tree stand the deer have been coming out 300-350 yds down the narrow area. The blind used to be right as the road does the S turn which put the deer about 100yds out . I'm thinking of a portable blind or just a chair under those trees with a shot down toward the power lines. I didn't know until this year that I could bring my own portable OR purchase a box blind and the land owner would place it where I want it

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I'm having a hard time posting my typing comes out white on white background till it post which has been making it hard to edit. I put what I am using for my zero in to show out to 200yds I just have to hold dead on . All my shots on deer have gone within 3" of my aim point which for me is a broadside just above the front leg into the lungs.

[grayfox]

For the second pic, is that morning or afternoon? If that is the one where they are 300-350 I would look for a tree/bunch of trees about 100-150 yds away from where they come out. So about 200 yds downrange from that box blind. My experience (which I confess is NOT decades) has been that at 100+ yds the deer won't get spooked by scent or anything. Set up in the shade close to or partially hidden by the trees. As long as the wind is not coming from your back you should be good.
If you can set up the day of or the day before, watch the weather forecasts for wind speed/direction, that way if you have to set up on other side of that narrow, open run.
Rhino has some pretty good little popups which I used this last fall. (I try to walk things in on a small hand wagon which lessens my approach-footprint.)

[Bassfish1952]

For the second pic, is that morning or afternoon?  If that is the one where they are 300-350 I would look for a tree/bunch of trees about 100-150 yds away from where they come out.  So about 200 yds downrange from that box blind.  My experience (which I confess is NOT decades) has been that at 100+ yds the deer won't get spooked by scent or anything.  Set up in the shade close to or partially hidden by the trees.  As long as the wind is not coming from your back you should be good. 
If you can set up the day of or the day before, watch the weather forecasts for wind speed/direction, that way if you have to set up on other side of that narrow, open run.
Rhino has some pretty good little popups which I used this last fall.  (I try to walk things in on a small hand wagon which lessens my approach-footprint.)

This is a pay deal . I started by going to a school funding event , Money went to the school Landowners were students parents or friends . You were put into the stand and didn't come out till they got back to retrieve you. Now I have gotten in with this guy, Family owns 3500 acres , he has blinds set up and first couple of times it was the same but after going a few times it has gotten more relaxed. I found out another of his customers had bought a blind and brought portable blind with him when he came . Found out by meeting him this last trip. 
14 degrees is cold for me so I go into a box blind in the morning and a tree blind in the afternoon , brown grass and the wood front is the box, that is where I got my 3 this last trip. Tree blind is the green with the s curve road I got 1 there in Dec. 
He had a tree blind in the tree where it narrows down but moved it to where it is now because of a change in deer movement  and starting to have a problem with hogs 
We'll see I like going there , much cheaper than buying property and I don't have to do anything . We meet in the morning I am taken to the blind then around 10am I get taken out and return around 2pm to go back in for the afternoon 
The box blind has a  window sill to steady the rifle works great for me but the tree stands just have a 1" bar that goes in front of you so it's either offhand shot or I have to bring a shooting stick or some kind of steady. 
All in all for me it works very well and allows me to still get out . 
I went with my grandson on a hunt in Georgia this year , his boss owns property up there . So it was here's the property here is where there are some  blinds go hunt. We walked in that morning but that afternoon I ended up driving to within 50yds of the blind and after he shot his deer we drove my car down to get the deer. He would have done ok pulling the deer out but I would have not made it . LOL