01-22-2022, 10:59 PM (This post was last modified: 01-22-2022, 11:02 PM by Old Bob.)
BFT... I saw something about this round a few weeks ago but don't recall where I saw it except that I'm sure it was in an email. The email might have been from Hornady but I'm not positive about that.
I took a look at the link you provided. Looks like someone needs some remedial spelling lessons... Wait? Click on "Launch Comparison Tools"
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
....IIRC, there were some posts in the Sniper's Hide forums, and my recollection was the posters opinion was it was a warm load and not as accurate in THEIR barrel, but fully usable.
01-23-2022, 04:00 PM (This post was last modified: 01-23-2022, 04:11 PM by SBRSarge.)
That might have been me! Here is what I posted from Sept 20, 2021….
“Got out today and shot the ELD-X and Police TAP loads at 100 yards through my 18” and 12” guns. I did 2 five shot groups with each rifle/ammo combination.
The 12 inch gun is a Monster barrel with a Trijicon 1-8 on it. The reticle is not really conducive to precision work but gets the job done. This gun had about 20 rounds through it at the start of the session.
The 18 inch gun is an Odin Works barrel with a NightForce 2.5-20 on it. It had 95 rounds down the barrel at the start of the session.
ELD-X
12” Monster Barrel- 2 five shot groups
1- 2343 fps 1.34moa
2- 2344 fps. 2.52moa
18” Odin Works Barrel- 2 five shot groups
1- 2650 fps .88moa
2- 2644 fps. .53moa
Police TAP
12” Monster Barrel- 2 five shot groups
1- 2347 fps wtf, I forgot to measure this but it was about like the second one
2- 2335 fps 2.5moa
18” Odin Works Barrel- 2 five shot groups
1- 2608 fps. 1.42moa
2- Chrono error 1.75moa
The TAP was not stellar, but then typical police ‘duty’ rifle ammo tends to focus on terminal ballistics and not super precision. Still, 1.56moa out of a police duty round will still get the job done at any reasonable police engagement distance. Last I knew, the average police sniper shot is about 75 yards.
The ELD-X loads look very nice out of my 18” gun, grouping on par with the ELD-M loads. I think I might have to try and arrange a trip out west to hunt antelope!”
It is definitely not match grade acccurate, but certainly fine for its intended purpose.
I have since shot groups with a 4-16x Trijicon on the 12 inch gun and it grouped a bit closer to the 18 inch gun.
I’d love to see them post ballistic gel tests with the other ARC loads, specifically the ELD-X. I’m used to seeing gel tests with bonded or solid copper bullets and they all have much higher retained weight.
(01-23-2022, 02:21 AM)BluntForceTrauma Wrote: Someone needs spelling lessons, for sure, and I bet the 0.580 BC is a typo. If Berger can't get that high, nobody can....
A lot of the design around the Berger 109 is to maintain accuracy through transitioning and going back through the sound barrier and below - not just for BC. Getting a high BC might not be that hard - getting it to fly straight is the challenge. The first failure that comes off the top of my head is the Nosler 6.5mm 130 gr RDF. Sounds like the 106 TAP doesn't fly straight.....
(01-23-2022, 02:21 AM)BluntForceTrauma Wrote: Someone needs spelling lessons, for sure, and I bet the 0.580 BC is a typo. If Berger can't get that high, nobody can....
A lot of the design around the Berger 109 is to maintain accuracy through transitioning and going back through the sound barrier and below - not just for BC. Getting a high BC might not be that hard - getting it to fly straight is the challenge. The first failure that comes off the top of my head is the Nosler 6.5mm 130 gr RDF. Sounds like the 106 TAP doesn't fly straight.....
It definitely seems that the TAP bullet was designed firstly to deliver terminal results and that pin point precision was a later concern.
I’ve seen the same with the 5.56 and .223 Federal loads. Stellar results in FBI gel tests but the grouping was not at all match grade level.
The ELD-X loads, however, were great in my 18 inch tube!
Midway has factory Seconds of what I am sure are these 106 gr bullets. Ill be giving them a go at the range this weekend. Had a couple hundred of the 106 gr factory seconds show up today. Looking quite tarnished. Will be interested How they will do from the 22" CZ 527.
Visualy compared to the Berger 108 gr Elite Hunter I do expect the .58 BC is real. Smidge longer & sleek with the lighter polymer tip. Now I am interested on how they do in terms of retaining weight or not when shot through & into a series of water jugs..
It’ll be interesting to see what you can wring out for group size with the TAP bullets in your handloads compared to what you get with the factory rounds.
I often wonder what makes many LE ammo loads group poorly; the bullet not being prone to precision, the loading process not as precise (powder charge, seating depth consistency), or some other factor.
Made it out to the range this AM. Was dealing with temps in the low teens & 25ish MPH wind gust. Beats the 35 to 40 MPH winds we experienced yesterday. Anyway this simply was not a good day to be pushing for top accuracy & that was not todays goal, for me any-way. Ill say Despite the conditions accuracy was at least fair with the few initial loads I tried little over MOA.
I had overlooked the ballistic gel test in the link & above. Keeping in mind the likely Velocity difference between my 22" bolt action loads & their slower 18" AR loads along with target medium, I am not surprised at difference in our results. Ill verify velocity on a future range trip, though I was expecting roughly 2800 FPS with the 29.4 GR CfE 223 & same weight of Lever Evolution. The 29.4 GR happens to be a moderate accuracy node with 108 GR Elite hunter over Lever-evolution in this 22" CZ527 bolt action. To be clear this load is likely to hot for an AR load.
That loads is pushing the 108 GR Berger bullet at 2780 FPS.
In the past I have found velocity & pressure to be very similar for a given charge between these two propellants.
With the wind chill today I just wasn't up to dealing with the Magneto speed this morning to verify or quantify velocity.
The 106 gr bullet was good for just a little over three 1 gallon water jugs. Fired 2 bullets into the series of 1 gallon water jugs. Copper jacket & core completely separated by the 4th water jug with both loads. One load just penetrated the 4th jug & the other never quite penetrated the 4th jug. These water jugs were right at 100 yards from the muzzle.
For deer hunting I prefer a bullet that does a better job of retaining weight. I expect this bullet may do a better job of holding together at lower velocities.
For me, this bullet will likely be delegated to target shooting or coyote control.
02-20-2022, 05:28 AM (This post was last modified: 02-20-2022, 05:30 AM by SBRSarge.)
Hii CZ,
I’m with you on the retained weight. For shooting both four legged as well as two legged targets I prefer to see better weight retention. The Hornady loads show a best RW of 72.5% in bare gelatin, and it drops from there.
A bonded or monolithic bullet would do much better. I can’t wait to see a load from Barnes, or at least from anyone with a Barnes TTSX on top of it.
I’d like to see the -X bullet tested in the FBI protocol tests and see how it does.
In fairness, though, even with 72.5% RW there is still more mass pushing through than most 5.56 rounds would have with 100% RW, and at a greater diameter.
Since Hornady's 6mm 106gn bullet was intended to be used in 6mm ARC TAP LE ammo, perhaps the lower RW of the bullet is intentional. Could be less chance of collateral damage in the event of a pass-through...
From the above reported observations of CZ 527 Guy: I agree, I don't think I'd use this bullet for anything larger than a coyote or shooting hanging steel at long range.
The trick is growing up without growing old. -- Casey Stengal
Made it out in slightly nicer weather today to verify velocities with the 29.4 GR of LVR & CFE223 under the 106 gr Factory seconds. Accuracy left a lot to be desired again.
CFE looks to hold the most promise in terms of ES though velocity suffers compared to LVR. Magnitospeed is showing average velocity of 2770 FPS with an ES of 15. whereas CFE was only yielding 2696 with an es of 5.6
07-02-2022, 08:03 PM (This post was last modified: 07-02-2022, 08:05 PM by Stonegables.
Edit Reason: spelling
)
I shot 40 rounds of 106 grain TAP this morning in my new 6mmARC rifle. It has a Sanders Armory complete upper with a stainless barrel, 5R rifling, handlapped, borescoped, big honkin comp, etc. These were the first rounds through this upper. The first 8 rounds were shot to zero at 100 yards. I then shot four 5 shot groups. The first three were from 1.5" to 1.1". The last group started with a flyer and wound up about 7/8". The last 4 shots of the last group were all touching about 3/8" outside spread. I was having a hard time holding the gun still. It was not a good day of shooting for me. I fired the last 12 rounds, over a crono at 10'. The average velocity was 2661, ES 33, SD 10.8 for 11 shots (I deleted one shot that was about 100 fps above the average). I plan to get a better butt stock and shoot some more soon.
It’ll be interesting to see how yours does as the barrel gets shot in. It kind of sounds like it might have been grouping tighter as your range session progressed.
I forgot to mention that my barrel is 20". I need a recommendation for a proper butt stock for shooting off a bench with a bipod. I will eventually get a tripod. Six months ago I had a complete/total shoulder replacement on my support side so it will be a while before I will attempt to shoot prone. My shoulder repair only lasted 50 years.
I use a lot of the Luth-AR MBA3 butt stocks. The length is adjustable, they go on over the carbine buffer tube, cheek riser is adjustable, they also have a softer butt pad you can get. Or as I did on one of mine, I got a generic pachmayr pad and used a belt sander to cut it down to shape, then drilled a couple holes through the pad and base material for the screws, to make a really comfortable padding.
Their wt is better than some of the other adjustable stocks, really well made. Not to expensive either.
