Berger 109 LR Hybrid and Lapua Scenar 105’s

[KMW1954]

BD1, Thanks for that posting. I just acquired some Scenar 105 to test out of my 22" Savage bolt. I also have now a lb of Varget but I will be testing these with A2460 powder as that is what I have been working with along with the Hornady 105 Match.

Here is the latest work up of that combo. The circled shots were sighters.    

[BD1]

BD1, Thanks for that posting. I just acquired some Scenar 105 to test out of my 22" Savage bolt. I also have now a lb of Varget but I will be testing these with A2460 powder as that is what I have been working with along with the Hornady 105 Match.

Here is the latest work up of that combo. The circled shots were sighters.

My barrel is also 22" so the velocities would be relevant.

[SpeyRod]

BD1 Your velocities are much better than mine. I ended up switching to LVR for more velocity. The sd’s have been decent as well.

I was having issues with fliers that I narrowed down to the 4th and/or 5th round when loading a 10 round elander with 5 rounds. To test I loaded 7 rounds for my 5 round groups. The fliers went away. I now have some more magazines to test so I can park the elanders.

I also pushed the 109’s a little harder with Varget. I am going to test the new levels for accuracy today if I decide to brave the rain.

Good luck.

[BD1]

I had to make a trip down to the coast on Thursday. I managed to find a lb of LVR on the shelf on the way home. Hoping to try it tomorrow, The temp sensitivity is not really an issue for me in a dedicated target rifle as we get 5 sighters at the start of every match. First match is next Saturday. I have some work to do before then I may be going into it without a seating depth ladder.

[SpeyRod]

The Scenar’s aren’t very jump sensitive. I start at .02 off and have only had to adjust for one caliber. At 1,000 they are sub moa. I haven’t tried LVR under the 109’s. If you do I’ll be interested in how it works.

FWIW, I have heard from a number of people that have loaded with LVR that its temp issues are not that drastic. As it warms here I’ll be watching for any shifts and adjust accordingly.

[SpeyRod]

First group of the day was the best. Last group would have beat it but I think I’m having magazine issues. I need to do some testing to see if I can isolate the flier.



That last round blew a .446 moa group up.

[BD1]

Sorry I haven't been back to report. I was asked to come back to work for a couple months and things have gotten a little busy as a result. I tested the Berger 109s over LVR and was able to get to 2600 fps. Unfortunately the best accuracy was at the lower end of the ladder around 2520 fps, (same velocity range as the best results with Varget), and it was not as accurate as Varget in my rifle. I also set my 200 yard zero on the Vortex using that process as an informal comparison of the best Varget loads for the 105 Lapuas vs the 109 Bergers. Three 3 shot groups of each on separate targets side by side at 200. Interestingly I was able to print one 1/2" group with each load. The other two groups for the lapuas were 3/4" and 7/8". The other two groups with the Bergers were both 1-1/4". So at this point, without doing any bullet seating depth work ups, the Lapuas are in the lead. Although it was a very gusty day with a lot of mirage I decided to try one 5 shot group of each load at 440yards. The lapuas printed 4-1/2", basically round. The Bergers printed 3 in 2" with the other two close together but 5" higher? Go figure. I may have figured out my flyers. The bottom of the gas block was very close to the inside bottom of the Luth-AR widebody handguard so it seemed possible that they might touch if I was really bearing down on the rest. So I pulled the handguard and opened the center slot at the end so there is no way for that contact to occur. Since then, no obvious flyers except the two Bergers high at 440 yards. But there was so much mirage that day that could easily have been me.

[trianglevelvet]

I've had excellent results with Sierra 110gr SMK's.

26.7gr of Varget got me 2501fps at 70°F out of a "20 inch monster barrel from SixFive arms. So far the groups have been 0.5 to 0.95 MOA in a variety of conditions, with just a bipod and simple bean bag under the rear.
Testing has so far just been 50/100 yards, but it's showing real potential for long range.

[SpeyRod]

I am going to test a theory this weekend on my magazines. I have been loading to absolute max on the coal for the magazines. When I shoot coal’s shorter than mag length, 105 Scenar’s, I get no fliers. With the 109’s not so much. I think I am running so dang close to max a .001 over size is causing drag on the mag.

So I am testing mag length, ML -.02 - -.1 in .02 increments.

I’ll bet greed on coal is my problem.

We will see.

FWIW, this weekend I shot 5) 5 shot groups that averaged .76 moa with the Scenar’s over LVR. My goal is .5 for 5 groups.

[BD1]

    Sorry that I haven't checked back in, but I've been very busy. I did get time this weekend to try the LVR a little more under the 109 Bergers. I took the best load, (28.5 grains under the 109 Berger at 2.30 COAL, still in brand new brass) and played with the seating depth. The best result was that load at 2.290 COAL, so I loaded up 30 of them, mounted my new Nightforce benchrest 12-42x56 and went to the range intending to get it sighted in, zero'd at 200 yds and dialed in at 440 yards for next weeks 1/4 mile shoot. Unfortunately the range was busy for fathers day and I didn't get much farther than getting on paper until everyone but me left at 12:30. folks cleared out mostly due to the mirage, VERY evident at 42 power, But, after one shot to verify I had dialed onto the paper, I was rewarded with an 1-1/2" group at 440 yards in a 5 mph 12:00 headwind in spite of the mirage. Of course then the wind started gusting and changing direction and by the time I got back to the bench it had swapped all the way around to 6:00, gusting 10- 15 mph and the next five shot group opened up to 3-1/2" and printed 2" higher on the target.  But I think I have a usable load. I'll post a pick when I get some time. I added a pic of the target, and looking back on it, I think I probably dialed in some correction before shooting the second group, so the extra elevation may not all have been due to the wind shift. The velocity of this load at 2.30 COAL was 2611 fps I haven't chronied it at 2.290, but I believe it must be faster as when I dialing in for 440 yards from my 200 yard zero (doing the MOA math in my head as I didn't have a range card for this load), the first shot was 9-1/2" high. The correction for that put the second sighter in the black vertical below the orange dot. The true value of MOA, (1.047 as opposed to "1" which I used doing it in my head), only accounts for about 4-1/2 " so the other 5" may well be higher velocity from the shorter OAL.

[Newmexican]

That's a very fine 440-yard group!

[MikaS]

I am beginner to 6mm ARC world, but last week I try to my new assembled with Faxon 20" heavy fluted barrel.
Lapua 105 scenar L, Vihtavuori N140 load to Sako 22PPC brass. Group is about 0,51" to 109yards. I shoot fast to sticker, not exactly precisely, but good start. My actual precision 6mm AR shoot  little better, but lighter bullets and I paid that barrel much more.

[BD1]

I am beginner to 6mm ARC world, but last week I try to my new assembled with Faxon 20" heavy fluted barrel.
Lapua 105 scenar L, Vihtavuori N140 load to Sako 22PPC brass. Group is about 0,51" to 109yards. I shoot fast to sticker, not exactly precisely, but good start. My actual precision 6mm AR shoot  little better, but lighter bullets and I paid that barrel much more.

It looks like you got a good barrel and already have a good load for it!

[SpeyRod]

Looking good on those loads guys. I have some 105 Scenar’s and 109 LRHT’s loaded and ready to test at 1000. Unfortunately, I had a couple surgeries last week and docs said I can’t use my left arm for 3 weeks. Tried shooting yesterday which was a bad idea. Need to wait till after the fourth before I can attempt anything.