Anyone work with N140? Test results [edit]

[Thelaststraw]

I have recently acquired a bunch of N 140 and was curious if anyone has worked with it yet. 

https://6mmarc.com/showthread.php?tid=124

It was mentioned here as being a preferred and optimal powder. While I had a great experience with the little bit of H4895 I had, I have zero experience with VV powders. All I know is people love them and they are $$$. Hornady has data on other stick powders that are generally similar to N 140 and has data for it with 108-110s. I don't shoot anything anymore other than 105s and smaller so I'm trying to extrapolate data from published stuff. VV has data on 6BR Norma but the 6 ARC is only ~86% of it's capacity among other differences I'm not aware of probably.

Would 25ish grains with a jump be a decent (safe) starting point perhaps? Or am I lowballing too much? I've run 26.5 to 27gr of H4895/105VLDs without problems but accuracy was at 26gr with minimal development...although a slow 2608 in a 24" Criterion barrel. My goal is 2750 at the very least for BC reasons, if I can get the speed with 95s they will match or better the 105s in wind. Any opinions and input is greatly appreciated.

[Old Bob]

A better starting point would be with 6mm PPC data instead of 6BR Norma. VV, Western Powders (Accurate/Ramshot) & Nosler have data for the 6PPC. VV data is with 68/70gr bullets & N120, N130 & N133 powders. Western data shows bullets from 55grs to 107grs using their powders. Nosler has data for only an 80gr bullet. The only VV powder they list is N130.

6mm PPC brass has a bit smaller case capacity than the 6mm ARC. It would be better to load up from the 6PPC than down from the 6BR Norma. I have some 6mm ARC reloads (103gr ELD-X & 27gr AA2520 in resized Lapua 6.5 Grendel brass) ready for shooting. I used the Hornady manual data as a starting point. I have N133 but didn't use it for any of my loads. The only data I've seen using N140 for 6mm ARC are in 6mmAR's loads & in the Hornady manual for gas guns (108gr ELD-M & 110gr A-Tips). Even though Hornady lists that data, I'm thinking N140 is too slow for the 6mm ARC. There's no data for N140 in Hornady's bolt gun data.

Edit: Found 6mm PPC data in Hornady's manual also.

[Thelaststraw]

Thank you sir, I forgot about 6PPC. That makes a lot of sense working up instead of down. N140 is real close to Varget but much less bulky and most importantly was available. I'll see what I can find. I appreciate the help.

[StoneHendge]

Remember that 6 PPC data is for bolt guns - not gas guns. Those max loads may be for.a smaller case, but they're also for higher pressure.  I'm interested to see your results - N140 sits very close to Varget on the charts and it's temp sensitivity is seemingly pretty good for something not made by ADI. Case caacity with Varget isn't the problem in ARC like it is with Grendel since there's less case intrusion. I could fit a little more in than the 26.8 grains I was using with 105 RDFs in a Starline case, but 27 didn't shoot as well and 27.2 was definitely too much (for me).

[Thelaststraw]

That's interesting about Varget and grendel, makes sense. The H4895 was super consistent and accurate and probably would have done better past 900yds if I pushed the 105s a little faster. I didn't have enough for serious testing. The love from f class guys got my attention since N140/N150 are favorite alternatives to Varget.

I'm going to start low as always and work up, I have plenty of the VV to work with.

[Thelaststraw]

So I got out this morning and did some chrono work and an OCW 'ladder' with the N140 and 95 VLDs. After having 6PPC suggested my brain got working a little better and I started checking out Mr Whitley's 6AR and it's variants. Knowing they are similar to 6BR capacity wise, I explored a middle ground. Most 6PPC published data only goes to 85 grains that I found. PPC also is for the most part a lower pressure cartridge from what I saw for a bolt rifle...mostly hovering in the high 40s CUP.

I loaded two of each at 26.9gr and 26.6gr N140 and Hornady 6ARC brass for a baseline safety check at ~2.260 OAL, an 0.020 jump in my 24" +2 gas CLE Criterion barrel. No velocity data but very mild and accurate. The OCW and chrono was just 3 rounds each so SD and ES wouldn't be worth noting I imagine:

27.2gr  ----  2751 avg
27.5gr  ---  2788 avg
----------------------------
27.8gr  ---  2823 avg              The OCW showed an accuracy node here, although it may have been an anomaly. I'm
28.1gr  ---  2831 avg              a sub MOA shooter, but not sub half minute reliably. Vertical spread was approx 1/4"
----------------------------
28.4gr  ---  2847 avg
----------------------------
28.7gr  ---  2882 avg            The OCW also showed an upper node where vertical spread was less than 1/4". Again, luck perhaps,
29gr      ---  2899 avg              it was very apparent. I'll probably just run with the lower node and enjoy.

From 28.7gr and up all they way to 29gr, nothing changed brass and primer wise. I have always got light ejector marks with my Maxim bolts, especially when suppressed. The only loads that don't do it are my most modest loads when doing initial workups with new powders. I'm positive my suppressor is a contributing factor since my SA gas block is always at full bleed regardless of powder with the can. I'm going to load some of the same with my converted Starline Grendel brass since it seems much more durable in my experience. I think I've also read some guys put a light bevel on the edges of the ejector with some emery cloth/1000 grit? Not sure but going to check on that one and try if my memory is correct.

Hopefully this can be of some use to anyone and if anything throws any red flags I'm all ears. I will say this though, N140 is the cleanest powder I've used yet which is a huge plus in my book.

I also got a little greedy and put three of each down the pipe of 29.3gr and 29.6gr. They were pretty spicy and probably not such a hot idea but in case anyone is curious....
29.3 --- 2930 avg
29.6gr (slight compression) --- 2957 avg

Nothing exciting compared to the above data, but I definitely would NOT advise anyone to go that high unless they know it's good. I couldn't resist since I had them but most likely not going to be happening anytime soon. I may not even be pushing things too far but I may have got lucky....speed isn't everything and even in the high 2700s I'm getting the speed I needed to make up for the BC loss from the 105s so I'm good in the lowest node.